Atrial Fibrillation

[Instructor]

I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.

Sorry for your loss. My Grandfather told me my entire childhood that the men in our family are dead by 55 because his father and grandfather died by that age. He is currently age 90, so have hope.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It’s very common among older people.

Yes it is.

They try carotid sinus massage (massaging the neck area…which I’ve never seen work),

That's not a very accurate description, and you must not have seen it done properly or often, because it has a success rate of about 20% on A-Fib. Higher for things like SVT.

cardioversion (defibrillating under anaesthetic…sometime works temporarily) and occasionally peacemaking.

It would be more accurate to say pacemakers are a super common treatment.

They tend to anticoagulate due to the risk of mural thrombosis forming in the atria and snapping off causing stroke. Anticoagulation is no big deal these days. Digoxin (digitalis) is sometimes prescribed which slows and strengthens the heart beat. It’s a condition that’s very manageable and should have minimal effects upon you life!

1979 called, and they'd like their medications back. The only people I've seen in the last decade on dig have been on it for half their life and find no reason to change. It's certainly not considered a first or second tier drug for a-fib.

 

[Zinobile]

Just had my annual physical. I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.

All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled. Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range. Kidney and liver function excellent, all good. The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.

However, my EKG shows Atrial Fibrillation. This is new; I did not have it last year when tested, nor any year previously. My resting pulse rate is in the 80s. Doctor asked me if I have had any issues of light-headedness or dizzyness recently, and I have; mostly in the dojo but sometimes when I stand up from the couch after sitting for awhile.

He put me on a beta blocker and I've made an appointment with a cardiologist for a stress test, echo cardiogram, and I guess I have to wear a harness for a while. Until then, I'm to keep my pulse rate under 150, which means no cardio in the dojo; even when I'm doing kata, if I get to breathing hard, I take a break.

It bothers me to be sitting down while everyone else is working out, but I don't really have a choice. At least until I get a rundown from the cardiologist and hear what I need to be doing.

It's always something, eh?

My brother just had ablation done to control his & he's doing fine. Time to obey the doctor for a while! Best wishes. Joe

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.

It really is. If I were you, I'd ask for a referral to an electrophysiologist to discuss ablation. It's not always an option, but if it is, and can be performed successfully, you can get off the thinners.

 

[Gyakuto]

Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.

That’s not the best news, Bill, but it’s far preferable to stroke and consequent disability. Kata and kihon are wonderful avenues in which to excel. Best of luck.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.

There is a lot of kung fu training material designed to lower stress and blood pressure. A lot of the Nei Gong Ja schools are all about this.

Getting older sucks, but you can make it suck less, and sparring isn't required. Just the usual time, effort, and focus I'm sure you're already well familiar with.

Glad to share anything I can, with you.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I will be investigating options as time goes on. At the moment, I'll follow the cardiologist's orders and take my *very expensive* medication and avoid hitting and getting hit at the dojo.

As to studying other styles, I'm not too much interested. I've been doing Isshinryu for over 15 years now, I'm 61 years old, and I'm not wanting to start something new. Besides, my dojo is my family. I don't just go there because I like my style of martial arts (although I do). I go there to be with my family.

I have given some thought over the years to adding some Tai Chi to my training. The problem for me is that there is nothing nearby. I can't drive an hour to train, unfortunately. I will keep my eyes open though. You never know what might pop up.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It really is. If I were you, I'd ask for a referral to an electrophysiologist to discuss ablation. It's not always an option, but if it is, and can be performed successfully, you can get off the thinners.

The cardiologist said I was not a candidate for cardioversion because I've been reporting heart palpitations for several years, although they just caught the afib on my ekg recently, so he said it probably would not work. He did suggest I'd be a candidate for the Watchman device, which would permit me to avoid Eliquis and allow me to do contact sports again. However, the whole thing sounds a little sketchy to me. It's invasive heart surgery and it's permanent. I dunno if I'm ready for that.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The cardiologist said I was not a candidate for cardioversion because I've been reporting heart palpitations for several years, although they just caught the afib on my ekg recently, so he said it probably would not work. He did suggest I'd be a candidate for the Watchman device, which would permit me to avoid Eliquis and allow me to do contact sports again. However, the whole thing sounds a little sketchy to me. It's invasive heart surgery and it's permanent. I dunno if I'm ready for that.

What sounds sketchy about it? It's minimally invasive, since it's placed via a puncture in the groin. Essentially the same as doing an angiogram, except you stop in the bottom of the left ventricle, instead of continuing on out of the heart into the aortic root.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

What sounds sketchy about it? It's minimally invasive, since it's placed via a puncture in the groin. Essentially the same as doing an angiogram, except you stop in the bottom of the left ventricle, instead of continuing on out of the heart into the aortic root.

It's a mechanical device, going into my heart. That doesn't make me feel happy thoughts. Also, the cardiologist was pretty happy about pushing it, seemed disappointed when I said I'd try the blood thinners first. I got the feeling he really wanted to try his new toy out on me. Just a feeling.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's a mechanical device, going into my heart. That doesn't make me feel happy thoughts. Also, the cardiologist was pretty happy about pushing it, seemed disappointed when I said I'd try the blood thinners first. I got the feeling he really wanted to try his new toy out on me. Just a feeling.

Note that I am not trying to talk you into anything.
It's a mechanical device if a balloon is a mechanical device. It's not like there are moving parts or electrical circuits or anything.
I understand why he would push it. It's not really new. I think it's been in common use for 6-8 years. I can dig up the numbers, if you want, but as I recall the effectiveness of the Watchman is slightly higher than drug therapy. But it's a very small difference. The major advantage is the impact on your day to day life. The Watchman (and similar devices) is the hands down winner there.
Again, I am not trying to talk you into anything.

 

[Rich Parsons]

It really is. If I were you, I'd ask for a referral to an electrophysiologist to discuss ablation. It's not always an option, but if it is, and can be performed successfully, you can get off the thinners.

HEY DD ,

Ablation as in small amount of current running through a section to usually cause scar tissue on the Nerve Center to reduce pain?
Sorry - this is the usage I am aware of for the procedure.

Are you saying that it can be used to this condition as well?
** Standard Disclaimers - See a doctor get the proper referrals et al

 

[Oily Dragon]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I will be investigating options as time goes on. At the moment, I'll follow the cardiologist's orders and take my *very expensive* medication and avoid hitting and getting hit at the dojo.

As to studying other styles, I'm not too much interested. I've been doing Isshinryu for over 15 years now, I'm 61 years old, and I'm not wanting to start something new. Besides, my dojo is my family. I don't just go there because I like my style of martial arts (although I do). I go there to be with my family.

I have given some thought over the years to adding some Tai Chi to my training. The problem for me is that there is nothing nearby. I can't drive an hour to train, unfortunately. I will keep my eyes open though. You never know what might pop up.

Definitely.

I know a bunch of people who started taking up Tai Chi during the pandemic, and still do Zoom classes etc. Remote Tai Chi isn't perfect, but it beats nothing, and has proven medical benefits for blood pressure, unlike a lot of other martial arts, which are (in my humble opinion) terrible for it.

Tai Chi Benefits | Health and Wellness | Newsroom

The health benefits of tai chi go beyond a general sense of calm. Here are six reasons to incorporate tai chi into your exercise routine.

www.abbott.com

 

[_Simon_]

Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.

I'm so sorry to hear Bill... that must be incredibly difficult news... I know I would find it very hard.

I'm hoping your karate can continue to evolve into deeper places, and more richness in different exploration. Training is still there, just in a different way. Thinking of you brother.

 

[Dirty Dog]

HEY DD ,

Ablation as in small amount of current running through a section to usually cause scar tissue on the Nerve Center to reduce pain?
Sorry - this is the usage I am aware of for the procedure.

Are you saying that it can be used to this condition as well?
** Standard Disclaimers - See a doctor get the proper referrals et al

Absolutely. Ablation just means removal or destruction of a body part or tissue or its function. In these cases, we are talking about knocking out the function. Specifically, the ability of a given bit of tissue to conduct.
The problem lies in abnormal conduction pathways. So it's off to the electrophysiology lab to have those pathways mapped. A catheter is placed and guided into the heart (just like in the Watchman procedure). The ablation itself is done with either cryo (liquid nitrogen or argon gas), heat (radiofrequency) or laser. The procedure causes teeny tiny scars which block the abnormal conduction pathways.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Absolutely. Ablation just means removal or destruction of a body part or tissue or its function. In these cases, we are talking about knocking out the function. Specifically, the ability of a given bit of tissue to conduct.
The problem lies in abnormal conduction pathways. So it's off to the electrophysiology lab to have those pathways mapped. A catheter is placed and guided into the heart (just like in the Watchman procedure). The ablation itself is done with either cryo (liquid nitrogen or argon gas), heat (radiofrequency) or laser. The procedure causes teeny tiny scars which block the abnormal conduction pathways.

I see the cardiologist again in a month. I'll be sure to ask. This is day 1 of eliquis and I'm not feeling too good.

 

[isshinryuronin]

The 13th precept of Musashi's Dokkodo comes to mind.

"13. Do not pursue the taste of good food. "

Harsh, master. But true.

"Do not pursue the taste of good food'??? Musashi was obviously a misguided quack who lived in a cave.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Will you consider walking instead?

You don't know my situation. Thank you for your suggestions.

Can you find any exercise that's easier than "walking"? I thought walking is the easiest exercise on earth.

 

[Oily Dragon]

"Do not pursue the taste of good food'??? Musashi was obviously a misguided quack who lived in a cave.

Yes, unless you realize the key word is "pursue".

Why do we pursue things?