Are you training in a McDojo?

[PhotonGuy]

I checked out the video, "What is a McDojo?" and I think it hits the nail right on the head when the video says that a McDojo is a martial arts school that puts quantity of students over quality of the material that they're teaching. I will say this much, the first school I was seriously involved in was not a McDojo, at least not by that definition, since not all class sizes were large. Sometimes we might've had fifteen or so students in a class which could be about average in terms of class size but sometimes we only had five or six students. So it was not a McDojo, where I trained.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I've never thrown them out, but "sorry you feel that way, do what you think you must" is pretty much the attitude.
On the other hand, we don't have people failing tests. Because we don't let them test till they're ready.

From what I remember you don't test your students, not the way you describe it. Rather when they're ready you have them put on a demonstration of what they learned, the purpose being to show off what they learned, and they get promoted. Not that its a right or wrong way to do it, but for it to be a test there would have to be the possibility of failing, or at least their performance would have to affect the outcome somehow.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I first trained in an Academy, and it was pretty cool. Many years later my dojo had a very large sign that greeted all that entered.

This is a Martial Arts Institute of Higher Pugilistic Education.
Please keep your hands up.

I want one of those signs.

 

[hoshin1600]

No, the Worcester school was in downtown, I think it may have been on Main street in Worcester back then, There was a theater across the street and way back then the Worcester Galleria was still open and running full tilt and full of stores. Mr Kim's school was on the second floor down on main street, roughly (I think), where South-bridge street goes off main. Then he closed the Worcester school and was only in Boston at that time, I believe. His school in Boston was also on the second floor but it was not on route 9 either, can't remember what street it was on. It seems to me if you turned off route 9 and drove past his school you'd end up on Beacon, but that was years ago and I could be wrong about that one.
This is all in the mid to late 70s

yes i remembered after i posted the one i was thinking of was Lee's black belt academy. but i do know where you were talking about down town. its all different down there now. if this was the 70's that he was there, i wouldnt have known of the school. i was just a youngster, but i was taking karate classes up in west Bolyston around then. but if you or @Buka remember the west Boylston karate school across from the drive in, let me know. i dont remember what style it was or even the name of the school and always wished i could.

 

[skribs]

Regarding school names, I think it's something that's irrelevant to whether it's a good or a bad school. Because there is no correlation, the confirmation bias sets in, depending on what you've seen.

 

[Dirty Dog]

From what I remember you don't test your students, not the way you describe it. Rather when they're ready you have them put on a demonstration of what they learned, the purpose being to show off what they learned, and they get promoted. Not that its a right or wrong way to do it, but for it to be a test there would have to be the possibility of failing, or at least their performance would have to affect the outcome somehow.

Close. It's a test, but they can't fail. If there is some portion of the test that they cannot perform on that day, their promotion is "pending" and they will keep trying in future classes until they succeed. When this happens, it's always been failure to break, although if someone got real nervous and forgot their forms, or something, that would have the same result.

 

[Xue Sheng]

yes i remembered after i posted the one i was thinking of was Lee's black belt academy. but i do know where you were talking about down town. its all different down there now. if this was the 70's that he was there, i wouldnt have known of the school. i was just a youngster, but i was taking karate classes up in west Bolyston around then. but if you or @Buka remember the west Boylston karate school across from the drive in, let me know. i dont remember what style it was or even the name of the school and always wished i could.

I don't remember anything in West Boylston, sorry, I was not all that old then either. I was in high school. The only Karate school I had anything to do with was Villari's over on Route 20 somewhere outside of Worcester, I went there for a little while after Mr Kim closed in Worcester. @Buka would likely know more about MA around there at that time than I do.

 

[Rabbitthekitten]

Actually come to think of it there is a guy in his 70's who has a load of schools in the county named after him. He's been studying for over 50 years and spends a load of time in Japan each year. He doesn't make a penny from teaching and the schools he doesn't teach at, he trained the guys running those. They just want to use his name and lineage I guess. Like I said I should be more open minded.

 

[Buka]

yes i remembered after i posted the one i was thinking of was Lee's black belt academy. but i do know where you were talking about down town. its all different down there now. if this was the 70's that he was there, i wouldnt have known of the school. i was just a youngster, but i was taking karate classes up in west Bolyston around then. but if you or @Buka remember the west Boylston karate school across from the drive in, let me know. i dont remember what style it was or even the name of the school and always wished i could.

I've been racking my brain but don't know. Are you talking about the town of West Boylston out near Worcester? I've never actually been there.

 

[skribs]

Close. It's a test, but they can't fail. If there is some portion of the test that they cannot perform on that day, their promotion is "pending" and they will keep trying in future classes until they succeed. When this happens, it's always been failure to break, although if someone got real nervous and forgot their forms, or something, that would have the same result.

This is basically how things work at my school. The kids are basically told when to test. The 3 weeks leading up to the test they are evaluated and given a test notification if they are ready. Very rarely do people screw up bad enough to put their test in pending status.

However, the "hook" for students to do well on testing, is that you can "pass" or "outstanding", and if you get outstanding you get a small patch. My whole arm was covered in them when I got my black belt, but black belts (and our uniforms) don't have it.

 

[hoshin1600]

I've been racking my brain but don't know. Are you talking about the town of West Boylston out near Worcester? I've never actually been there.

yes that is where i was talking about. judging from what i remember about the place i have a suspicion that it was a kenpo school, thought if it was, you might have a recollection about it. but i cant believe for a second there is somewhere youve never been or someone you dont know.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

yes that is where i was talking about. judging from what i remember about the place i have a suspicion that it was a kenpo school, thought if it was, you might have a recollection about it. but i cant believe for a second there is somewhere youve never been or someone you dont know.

He's lying. It's the real location of area 52, and he has to pretend ignorance. That seems much more likely than that he's never been there/doesn't know the school.

 

[Dirty Dog]

This is basically how things work at my school. The kids are basically told when to test. The 3 weeks leading up to the test they are evaluated and given a test notification if they are ready. Very rarely do people screw up bad enough to put their test in pending status.

However, the "hook" for students to do well on testing, is that you can "pass" or "outstanding", and if you get outstanding you get a small patch. My whole arm was covered in them when I got my black belt, but black belts (and our uniforms) don't have it.

We give them scores, and although it doesn't matter if you pass with an average of 7 or of 9, there's still that feeling of accomplishment and bragging rights. There's no patches or anything. This is a non-commercial YMCA-based program, and one of our goals is to not add any expenses.

 

[WaterGal]

I've never thrown them out, but "sorry you feel that way, do what you think you must" is pretty much the attitude.
On the other hand, we don't have people failing tests. Because we don't let them test till they're ready.

This touches up to my thought about this "the parent complains their kid didn't test, so we lowered the standard" thing...

The options aren't only:
1) throw out your standards, or
2) tell the parent to get lost

There's also a third option, which is to look at the processes you have in place in your school. Are you giving the students/parents a realistic sense of how long it will take them to progress, and what's required of them to do so? Are you providing them with enough quality instruction on the material they need to progress? Do you have home reference guides or videos available to help them practice at home?

I know this is off-topic from "are you training in a McDojo?", but I think it's important to think about. It's easy to blame the student, or parent; it's harder to take personal responsibility for how we can help them succeed.

 

[skribs]

This touches up to my thought about this "the parent complains their kid didn't test, so we lowered the standard" thing...

The options aren't only:
1) throw out your standards, or
2) tell the parent to get lost

There's also a third option, which is to look at the processes you have in place in your school. Are you giving the students/parents a realistic sense of how long it will take them to progress, and what's required of them to do so? Are you providing them with enough quality instruction on the material they need to progress? Do you have home reference guides or videos available to help them practice at home?

I know this is off-topic from "are you training in a McDojo?", but I think it's important to think about. It's easy to blame the student, or parent; it's harder to take personal responsibility for how we can help them succeed.

One thing to keep in mind, is that in most academic schools, a D is a passing grade. You can get 60% on a test and pass. Lots of people consider a D to be a sort of a "fail lite" and as long as they get a C- (70%) it's a pass. So the question becomes what level of standard do you hold students to? Do you hold them to 60% and as long as they show progress you reward it? Do you say 70% and they must meet the minimum standard on a few things in order to proceed? Or 80% and have a specific benchmark they need to meet? How about 90% where they must be almost perfect, or 100% with absolutely no mistakes or flaws?

This leads to two questions:

1. What is the point where you either start losing people because they'll never reach your standard, or you start losing people because they burn out trying to get there?
2. What is the point where you have to implement stricter standards, or risk having future instructors and the next generation who don't know what they are doing?

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Been awhile since I commented. This is always an interesting topic. I think in this day and age, just about every school has some characteristics of what is determined to be a Mcdojo.

I think an article by the "Karate Nerd" showed this and it really changed my perspective.

Example- A student of mine came in and told me that the Dojo down the street had 24 belts. He then asked if I thought it was a Mcdojo. I stated 'Its his school, he can do what he wants".

I don't think he expected that answer. I then told him that it is more important to practice than to **** talk. Those who spend a lot of time trying to prove what and who, is legitimate, is a waste of time.

Focus on your training.

 

[Buka]

Been awhile since I commented. This is always an interesting topic. I think in this day and age, just about every school has some characteristics of what is determined to be a Mcdojo.

I think an article by the "Karate Nerd" showed this and it really changed my perspective.

Example- A student of mine came in and told me that the Dojo down the street had 24 belts. He then asked if I thought it was a Mcdojo. I stated 'Its his school, he can do what he wants".

I don't think he expected that answer. I then told him that it is more important to practice than to **** talk. Those who spend a lot of time trying to prove what and who, is legitimate, is a waste of time.

Focus on your training.

I'll say it's been a while since you commented. Good to read you again, hope your well, bro.

 

[skribs]

Been awhile since I commented. This is always an interesting topic. I think in this day and age, just about every school has some characteristics of what is determined to be a Mcdojo.

I think an article by the "Karate Nerd" showed this and it really changed my perspective.

Example- A student of mine came in and told me that the Dojo down the street had 24 belts. He then asked if I thought it was a Mcdojo. I stated 'Its his school, he can do what he wants".

I don't think he expected that answer. I then told him that it is more important to practice than to **** talk. Those who spend a lot of time trying to prove what and who, is legitimate, is a waste of time.

Focus on your training.

Do you have a link to said article?

 

[Flying Crane]

This touches up to my thought about this "the parent complains their kid didn't test, so we lowered the standard" thing...

The options aren't only:
1) throw out your standards, or
2) tell the parent to get lost

There's also a third option, which is to look at the processes you have in place in your school. Are you giving the students/parents a realistic sense of how long it will take them to progress, and what's required of them to do so? Are you providing them with enough quality instruction on the material they need to progress? Do you have home reference guides or videos available to help them practice at home?

I know this is off-topic from "are you training in a McDojo?", but I think it's important to think about. It's easy to blame the student, or parent; it's harder to take personal responsibility for how we can help them succeed.

I guess I assumed that this self-evaluation phase was a given.

Sometimes a pushy parent simply needs to be shown the door.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Do you have a link to said article?[/QUOTE

Yup!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw1CNYgKFl3oljuTvvQEGIZQ&cshid=1565294549769