Are Martial Arts Sexist?

[Battousai]

Are modern martial arts catored toward men? Are women viewed as inferiors?
I think that martial arts of all things should be an area that women have an equal foothold, but then I'm a guy. To me martial arts have always been about skill, and training (not for muscles, but skill), education about the weaknesses of the human body; not about muscles, size, or testosterone.
With the importance of size dispute of the other post, and all the details about weight lifting as a part of training, do women get left out? Arn't there other more important areas of martial arts that make these gender differences insignificant, or are women inferior?
What do the female martial artists out there think? Do you feel treated differently (in a negative way) in general in the context of martial arts?

 

[KenpoGirl]

I think I have posted on another string that I, personally have been very lucky when it comes to sexism in the martial arts.

BUT, I am not one of those females that worry about breaking a nail or messing up my hair. When I punch I punch, and when a guy punches I expect to be hit. (within reason of course). So the guys never really had the opportunity to think of me as a soft female.

I will also say, the guys I have worked with have be A-1. I've never met a guy that thought I shouldn't be there. So with the exception of guys being to "gentle" when it comes to working out with a woman. I'd say no I don't think the Martial Arts are overly sexist anymore.

Dot

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I think it depends on the art. Some are geared towards the power moves, and the majority of women are not power players. They do however have their own strong points, that if properly developed can equalize a situation.

Women usually do not have power or stamina on their side. They do however have speed, agility, flexibility and a higher pain tollerence. They usually can't take too many shots though.

Keep in mind, I'm going on 'average', and my own experiences sparing with em.

As an aside, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) but Wing Chung was reportedly developed by a woman.

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

I can NOT attest to the validity of this, but I heard that Ed Parker
once said that the difference between Wing Chun, and American
Kenpo is that Wing Chun was invented by a 90 pound nun, and
AK was invented by a 200 pound Hawaiian.

The quote was stated to imply that the two styles were very
similar. Yet it also implies that WC was invented by a 90 lb.
woman. :asian:

 

[fist of fury]

According to legend Wing Chun was developed by a woman. There's a lot of good women in martial arts nowadays I haven't witnessed alot of sexism in martial arts personally. There are some women that are there to be cute and lose weight but I think there in the minority most women I've seen are good and take thier art seriously.

 

[kickyou]

Some of the older Instructors still display some sexism but the newer generation does not.I think it has alot to do with upbringing and the society you grow up in.

 

[Cthulhu]

An instructor I know always points out that (in general) women are physically weaker and tend to be less aggressive than men. However, one thing I think everyone should stress is that this does not mean that women are inferior to men. We're all just a little different

As a slight tangent, where I used to train, a female bodybuilder and her trainer used to use the room before our class started. She was an incredibly sweet person, but if she wanted, she could probably pick me up over her head and snap my spine.

Back to the topic, though

I think a part of it is that the majority of martial arts practiced in the Western world are from the East, where the culture is, or at least once was, sexist. Also, up until the past few generations, women in Western civilizations have generally been brought up to be (I hate to use the word) subservient to men. It wasn't that long ago that women were finally granted the right to vote by the 19th Amendment in the U.S.

As it stands now, I think there is still a significant disparity in the ratio of men to women in the martial arts. However, I think that gap is closing faster and faster as time passes.

From my perspective, some arts seem to draw more women to them than others. TKD and kickboxing seem to have more female students than say, karate. Again, though, I think that will change rapidly.

However, I'm writing this from a male martial artist's viewpoint, so there are obviously issues that I can't understand. I think we need the opinions of more of our female members.

Cthulhu

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by kickyou

Some of the older Instructors still display some sexism but the newer generation does not.I think it has alot to do with upbringing and the society you grow up in.

I totally agree. And even then, some learn to see women as
equals despite their upbringing.

Sexism, Racism, whatever .. if we all learned to celebrate each
others differences instead of fearing them, we'll all be better
off.

:soapbox:

 

[Battousai]

Yes it seems to me that martial arts should be an arena were women can really do as much as men. With all the cool techniques that don't rely on strength.
Hopefully there will be more women in the martial arts in the future. From what I know, the majority of women, in my area at least, are conscious of the danger of sexual assalt everytime they are out alone after dark. Most of my female friends prefer to have some body else with them when they walk at night. So it seems to me that women, more then men, would be interested in martial arts. Not just the aerobic fluff, but real training.

 

[Shinzu]

women tend to be a lttle more agile and flexable than men.

i think the martial arts is for both. i have seen women that could wipe the floor with a man and vise versa, but i believe it to be an equal art.

 

[kickyou]

Shinzu,

For the most part I agree the arts are equalizing in respect to the sexes but I tell you I sometimes get really tired of fighting the guys because it seems the only place they know to hit is the chest.For you guys that do not know if you hit a women hard in the chest it is the same feeling as if we kick you in the groin.Whenever I am sparring one of those guys that like to hit real hard in the chest, I always warn them to lighten up I will warn them 2 times about it.Then the 3rd time I take a warning for a low kick,I have yet to have to warn them a 4th time.

 

[Shinzu]

unfortunately some people like to fight dirty. when faced with a better opponent they feel this is the only way to win. not true sportsmanship if you ask me.

on the street anything goes, but in class you are supposed to have respect for your sparring partner.

it is a shame that some people just dont get it. if they were truly skilled they would be able to know how to fight with control and still make contact. there is no reason to go all out just to prove your stonger... it doesn't mean you are better.

 

[kickyou]

True.There are Bullies everywhere though.We usually have one in every sparring class who just does not know how to use control when sparring.As a black belt we are expected to fight at their level until we can no longer control them then it is allowed to pull out some advanced techniques to get them back under control it is not meant to hurt them it is just meant to give them a warning to calm down.

 

[Shinzu]

i agree that some students tend to get to big for their bridges. sometimes a little shot will do the trick.

i got my friend into TSD and i was sparring him at his first testing. he totally went nuts and was hitting very hard and ot of control. after blocking a bunch of his attacks i gave him a roundhouse to the chest and told him to chill out... it was a test not bloodsport. he got the picture.

 

[arnisador]

My first night at TKD a green belt decided during sparring to show how tough he was. He hit me in the face twice despite it being against the rules. I patiently pointed out that it was my understanding that that was not alegal blow. After the third time I showed him what I had learned through 7+ years of karate before coming to TKD--just a well-timed backfist. After he got up he stopped trying to punch me in the face.

I stopped taking TKD within a month for a variety of reasons.

As to sexism, I train my son and daughter. There are differences in general ability between the sexes and also in terms of likley threats. Still, the martial arts are good for both genders.

I must be honest however--I prefer to work with men, in part because my experience has been that you can't go full-power with very many women. I have met some of the exceptions but this has been my experience!

 

[Rob_Broad]

The martial arts being historically a warrior like thing, it was geared towards men. Men fought wars, men created wars, women just inspired them(just kidding). But their are styles that were the domain of women for quite a while, wing Chun is believe to have been created by a Nun, and look at the art of Naginata, a womans weapon.

I look at women as my equals on the floor, if they have a higher rank then they are my superior, I have no problem with this. I often pair off with women at seminars sothat I can get a different perspective and to make sure they get a fair amount of the instructors time.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad

I look at women as my equals on the floor, if they have a higher rank then they are my superior

Yup, no problem there. I certainly expect that attitude of myself and my practcie partners. Of course, respect in general is a part of the martial arts!

 

[girlychuks]

FIRST- Wing CHun kung fu was started by an abbess, Ng Miu, who taught it to a beautiful , albeit poor, daughter of a bean curd maker. Wing Chun was the poor daughter who was being bullied by the son of the town magistrate. Ng Mui took her to the mountains and taught Wing Chun the Shaolin temple art, and WIng Chun came back from the mountain and proceeded to kick the backside of the town bully.
*History lesson over*


I don;t think martial art, in and of itself, is sexist. I keep having to tell myself my greatest oppoinent is myself. Right now I am having a very very hard time accepting my body and it's limitations. First, I;ve been on the recieving ends of some umm... comments regarding my umm... female traits.
As a result, I become more and more determined to fight and kick a**. At 5'7 and 150 pounds, though I may have a fair amount of muscle, I still get whopped with groundfighting.

This past saturday, I stayed after to spar with a great buddy who is great at sparring. We were playful, and he would occasionally take me down and put me in a light submission hold. Then we would get up and we would commence whupping each other.



Afterwards, I went home and *CRIED* that a man only a little bit bigger than me could take me down, and keep me down, so easily. Even if he's a brown belt and I[m a just a beginner, I felt so helpless being held down like that. Even Bruce Lee said that a woman could never beat a man in martial arts. I can accept that. But it hurts to think that for all my training and hard work, I am still easy to dispatch.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by girlychuks

FIRST- Wing CHun kung fu was started by an abbess, Ng Miu, who taught it to a beautiful , albeit poor, daughter of a bean curd maker. Wing Chun was the poor daughter who was being bullied by the son of the town magistrate. Ng Mui took her to the mountains and taught Wing Chun the Shaolin temple art, and WIng Chun came back from the mountain and proceeded to kick the backside of the town bully.
*History lesson over*

Even if he's a brown belt and I'm a just a beginner, I felt so helpless being held down like that. Even Bruce Lee said that a woman could never beat a man in martial arts. I can accept that. But it hurts to think that for all my training and hard work, I am still easy to dispatch.

Great history lesson! Even if what Bruce Lee said is true, it's
the non martial artist's *** you'll be kicking anyways. Don't
sell yourself short. I bet you're doing just fine.

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by girlychuks

I don;t think martial art, in and of itself, is sexist. I keep having to tell myself my greatest oppoinent is myself. Right now I am having a very very hard time accepting my body and it's limitations. First, I;ve been on the recieving ends of some umm... comments regarding my umm... female traits.
As a result, I become more and more determined to fight and kick a**. At 5'7 and 150 pounds, though I may have a fair amount of muscle, I still get whopped with groundfighting.

This past saturday, I stayed after to spar with a great buddy who is great at sparring. We were playful, and he would occasionally take me down and put me in a light submission hold. Then we would get up and we would commence whupping each other.



Afterwards, I went home and *CRIED* that a man only a little bit bigger than me could take me down, and keep me down, so easily. Even if he's a brown belt and I[m a just a beginner, I felt so helpless being held down like that. Even Bruce Lee said that a woman could never beat a man in martial arts. I can accept that. But it hurts to think that for all my training and hard work, I am still easy to dispatch.

There's always going to be someone that's better than you we all have to accept that fact. And it's better to get beaten in class at least you can learn from it without getting beat up. You know that you have a problem on the ground so learn to keep yourself off the ground and later on after you've developed a good foundation in your art learn a little ground fighting so it doesn't happen again. Also remeber that though sparring is a good training tool it doesn't mean you'll do poorly in the street where anything goes you just might surprise yourself one day.