Transgenders in martial arts

[WingChunChick]

I'd like to preface this thread by saying that I respect people of all sexualies and gender identities and I hope everyone can have a nice discussion on the topic.

That being said I've had to train with a few transgendered people over the last few years and although they are good martial artists I'm not exactly comfortable with seeing them appear in women's martial art classes. They are built differently both having male parts (I'm talking about the male ones) and are generally larger then most girls, giving them an advantage and making for some awkard situations.

I'm wondering what your guys's thoughts on the subject and how to handle it are?

 

[Danny T]

All of our classes are co-ed. Different genders partner all the time. Sexuality has nothing to do with the training.
If you are larger, heavier, stronger, faster than your partner then you back off and work to help make them better.
Works very well and have had very few concerns.

 

[drop bear]

Don't care.

Female only is a marketing tool anyway.

Otherwise i guess i would treat it with the same indifference that i treat guys who can't train with girls.

 

[Jenna]

I'd like to preface this thread by saying that I respect people of all sexualies and gender identities and I hope everyone can have a nice discussion on the topic.

That being said I've had to train with a few transgendered people over the last few years and although they are good martial artists I'm not exactly comfortable with seeing them appear in women's martial art classes. They are built differently both having male parts (I'm talking about the male ones) and are generally larger then most girls, giving them an advantage and making for some awkard situations.

I'm wondering what your guys's thoughts on the subject and how to handle it are?

Hi there Welcome along!! Hey, are you competing against these folk? In which case you are separated into weight classifications for competition??

Otherwise if what bother you it is the unfair advantage (male against female) I wonder could you look at this at all as beneficial in training your defence because you are become proficient against such larger opponents?

If what bother you more is awkward situations then again could you think primarily not of the clothes choice or gender identity of your opponent and but instead think of YOUR OWN defence? Like what advantages can you call to bear to overcome this larger opponent?? Bear in mind this might reflect some real world situation any of us could be unfortunate enough to find our self in yes? xo

That being said, I understand your concerns and, political correctness aside, I believe there is legitimacy in those concerns. Wishes x

 

[wingchun100]

Not to be crass, but genitalia does not matter. What matters is, "Does this person prefer to be addressed by male or female pronouns?" They can live as a man or woman without physically being them yet.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I agree with the others, unless it's a competition I see no problem training together. Not only that but more often than not good technique will trump brute strength every time. I'm not the weakest guy and I have a long reach but there is a woman in my training sessions who is a lot more skilled than me and she beats me every time, despite being smaller and weaker than myself.

 

[wingchun100]

I'd like to preface this thread by saying that I respect people of all sexualies and gender identities and I hope everyone can have a nice discussion on the topic.

That being said I've had to train with a few transgendered people over the last few years and although they are good martial artists I'm not exactly comfortable with seeing them appear in women's martial art classes. They are built differently both having male parts (I'm talking about the male ones) and are generally larger then most girls, giving them an advantage and making for some awkard situations.

I'm wondering what your guys's thoughts on the subject and how to handle it are?

By the way, it says you joined yesterday, so welcome to MT!

 

[Danny T]

Not to be crass, but genitalia does not matter. What matters is, "Does this person prefer to be addressed by male or female pronouns?" They can live as a man or woman without physically being them yet.

Pronoun??
Refer to them by their name - noun.

 

[wingchun100]

Pronoun??
Refer to them by their name - noun.

That's a given, but pronoun is also part of it, whether they prefer to be referred to as "he" or "she."

 

[Danny T]

That's a given, but pronoun is also part of it, whether they prefer to be referred to as "he" or "she."

So refer to Jim as Jim, Ashley as Ashley, or Jen and Jen there is no he or she and everyone knows who is being referred to.
As I stated already sexuality and gender has nothing to do with training.

 

[wingchun100]

So refer to Jim as Jim, Ashley as Ashley, or Jen and Jen there is no he or she and everyone knows who is being referred to.
As I stated already sexuality and gender has nothing to do with training.

Nothing to do with training, everything to do with being sensitive to how they want to be treated.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

So refer to Jim as Jim, Ashley as Ashley, or Jen and Jen there is no he or she and everyone knows who is being referred to.
As I stated already sexuality and gender has nothing to do with training.

Pronouns are very important to trans-gendered individuals and (here in the UK at least) it is considered polite to ask which pronoun a person prefers. I don't know about you but constantly repeating someone's name over and over gets very tiresome:

"Hi everyone, this is Jen and Jen is joining us for the first time. Please make Jen feel welcome as Jen is feeling rather nervous."

 

[Steve]

For me, I think you're perfectly entitled to hold whatever opinions you have about transgendered people. But you have a decision to make. It sounds like your school has made a decision to allow them into the women's only classes. Your decision will hinge on whether you can set your concerns to the side, or not.

Personally, I wouldn't care, but if you have what you believe are legitimate concerns, I respect that. Just understand that changing your school's policy will likely not be possible. Your likely recourse will be to leave the school and find another one.

 

[O'Malley]

Well the only issue that I'd see with transgender/gender fluid/attack helicopter sexual identity is that it could lead to absurd and/or unfair situations in competitions.

Otherwise I don't see how training with them would be a problem, it would just be the same as training with men and would make you work harder to overcome the difference in size and strength.

What kind of awkward situations are you thinking about?

And not training with transgender will not keep you away from women who are larger/more muscular than normal. My roommate was a regular girl who had a hormonal disease that sent her testosterone production through the roof, she was a boxer and put on more muscle than some guys in her gym. Had to stop training because she said she didn't want to look like the Romanovian girl from the movie Dodgeball.

 

[wingchun100]

Pronouns are very important to trans-gendered individuals and (here in the UK at least) it is considered polite to ask which pronoun a person prefers. I don't know about you but constantly repeating someone's name over and over gets very tiresome:

"Hi everyone, this is Jen and Jen is joining us for the first time. Please make Jen feel welcome as Jen is feeling rather nervous."

That was my point.

 

[Druid11]

I'd like to preface this thread by saying that I respect people of all sexualies and gender identities and I hope everyone can have a nice discussion on the topic.

That being said I've had to train with a few transgendered people over the last few years and although they are good martial artists I'm not exactly comfortable with seeing them appear in women's martial art classes. They are built differently both having male parts (I'm talking about the male ones) and are generally larger then most girls, giving them an advantage and making for some awkard situations.

I'm wondering what your guys's thoughts on the subject and how to handle it are?

I have no idea if I've trained with someone who was transgendered. Perhaps I have and never knew it. I've also never taken an women's only martial arts class. The only ones I know about in my area are more of those cardio-kickboxing classes then real martial arts. I've always trained in co-ed classes and I have no real issue with training with men, and I certainly wouldn't have a problem training with a male to female trans person (or a female to male trans person for that matter). I would be really offended if I guy didn't want to train with me because I'm a woman, so why would I be hesitant to work with someone because they might have/had different genitalia then I do? I don't really see why there would be any issues with training with them, at least if we're talking about training for fun, fitness, and self-defense. I've never had an "awkward" situation with a man in martial arts, even when I did BJJ. As long as everyone behaves like adults, I don't see a problem. So as far as I'm concerned there would be nothing to handle.

I believe Real Sports (I may be mistaken) did a segment on a male to female trans woman who was now competing in MMA some years ago. I think you might be able to make an argument that in full contact competitive sports that someone who was born physically male would have an unfair advantage. Those born physically male are simply able to build more muscle then someone born physically female (or at least they could before starting female hormones) and would probably be stronger even assuming the same weight. I really don't want to say that she shouldn't be able compete against other woman, but I do think she has an advantage. But then there are always athletes who have natural advantages over their competitors, we don't exclude them from competing in their chosen sport.

 

[wingchun100]

In Albany there is a woman (born a man) who was into stunt fights and now does wrestling. She is massive.

 

[Saheim]

Not to be crass, but genitalia does not matter. What matters is, "Does this person prefer to be addressed by male or female pronouns?" They can live as a man or woman without physically being them yet.

I completely disagree with this. I do agree that "genitals do not matter", what matters is chromosomes. If you have male chromo, you's a male. If ya got chick chromo, you's a girl. Now you can be a skinny, pretty, effeminate male or you can be a burly female with a shaved head BUT you're stuck with a certain combination of X/Y and that's it. Maybe I like being addressed as Chinese, but that don't make it so.

That said - While I won't call someone a gender they aren't, I will call them by the name they choose AND I could not care less, when it comes to training. I'd rather train with a transgender who put forth real effort and displayed well earned skills than someone who's lifestyle I agreed with BUT was a wussy slacker.

 

[wingchun100]

I completely disagree with this. I do agree that "genitals do not matter", what matters is chromosomes. If you have male chromo, you's a male. If ya got chick chromo, you's a girl. Now you can be a skinny, pretty, effeminate male or you can be a burly female with a shaved head BUT you're stuck with a certain combination of X/Y and that's it. Maybe I like being addressed as Chinese, but that don't make it so.

That said - While I won't call someone a gender they aren't, I will call them by the name they choose AND I could not care less, when it comes to training. I'd rather train with a transgender who put forth real effort and displayed well earned skills than someone who's lifestyle I agreed with BUT was a wussy slacker.

You can disagree all you want. It has nothing to do with genetics or chromosomes or anything. It has to do with the fact that they feel they were born in the wrong body. I would love to see an interaction between you and a trans person if you approached them with that ignorant attitude.

 

[wingchun100]

By the way, I probably could have taken your reply more seriously, but you had to go and use "you's." Let's not forget the "ya." Tell me: what did you do with all the time you saved by typing those things instead of "you're" and "you?"