Watchin a little ISKA on ESPN and I just dont like this stuff. Yeah it looks cool and I'm not doubting the athletic ability and dedication of the performers, but is it martial arts or more gymnastics. I would love to see traditional forms competition on the same stage. Just my opinion, im sure plenty of you will disagree but man I just dont like it.
Anybody else sick of XMA?
- Thread starter prm2770
- Start date
I'm a big fan of Tricking, but I really couldn't care for XMA (which is actually a brand name more than an activity)xfighter88
Blue Belt
I think it's fun to watch. I think that it's pretty obvious that it is more for entertainment then actual martial arts and self defense. I personally have a bigger problem with WTF style TKD sparring. People see that and think that TKD as a whole is flashy kicks with little self defense app.
xfighter88
Blue Belt
sorry bad previous post. Wish I could take it back. Oh well. Here come the flames
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I agree completely. XMA is pure entertainment. You can see tricking making its way into hip/hop dancing, movies and all sorts of other forms of entertainment.
I'm not sure about WTF TKD, but if you're referring to what I saw in the Olympics a few years back, that was atrocious. Talk about weird, inappropriate yelling.
We've seen much worse!
You shared an opinion and I don't think anyone has a problem with that. It's okay to disagree. Very true. At the same time, I appreciate excellence in anything, even if I don't particularly like it. Cooking, music, art, XMA or whatever, if it's done well, there's something captivating about it. For me, I find this to be particularly true when it's something I don't think I could EVER do. XMA is one of these. Some of the things these kids do is pretty spectacular. I can't watch very much of it at a time, but I'll settle on the deuce when they're showing the ISKA events from Coronado Springs in Florida and enjoy watching the kids jump around and the chubby, older guys break breaks with their heads.
I dont consider them the same at all. I find it fun to pull off a trick everynow and then. XMA or creative forms that are ALL tricks is what is annoying. If you were to show some traditional techniques and maybe do 1 or 2 tricks as part of the whole I think I would find it much more enjoyable.
And I too agree that WTF sparring is not a martial art. It is however and incredible sport. Not one that I participate in, but in the same way that I can repect the athleticism of the XMA crowd I too can appreciate the skill of Sport TKD'ers.
-Phill
And I too agree that WTF sparring is not a martial art. It is however and incredible sport. Not one that I participate in, but in the same way that I can repect the athleticism of the XMA crowd I too can appreciate the skill of Sport TKD'ers.
-Phill
I have to admit, I'm really not sure why XMA gets people wound up... It's a highly athletic pursuit that produces many fine young athletes. Rock on.
It's not for me, but then again neither is parkour, but I don't see many threads on martial artists complaining about it, or even more "traditional" running sports complaining about it.
Providing the audio is muted I have no problem enjoying a good XMA performance, the yelling is almost as bad as a womens tennis match.
It's not for me, but then again neither is parkour, but I don't see many threads on martial artists complaining about it, or even more "traditional" running sports complaining about it.
Providing the audio is muted I have no problem enjoying a good XMA performance, the yelling is almost as bad as a womens tennis match.
I agree with you, different strokes for different folks. Im less talking about XMA specifically, but rather the lack of coverage of traditional arts. I get tired of turning on something about MA and getting XMA. Like i said earlier maybe include some tricking in an otherwise traditional style form and i think that would be kinda cool, I just get worked up when that is what is becoming the poster for martial arts.
Traditional martial arts are just one of a very long list of activities that are not spectator friendly.
Seriously, who would want to tune in and watch 20 competitors go up and do all do the same traditional form, which doesn't require any great degree of athleticism to do.
The only people that traditional martial arts would appeal to would be the people actually doing it. Which is a rather small group of people.
Other 'bad' spectator sports get air time, but people can at least relate. Darts gets air time, but the number of people playing darts is a lot bigger and the viewer can at least recognize skill.
In traditional kata, the average person looking at 20 different competitive black belts doing the same kata would likely not be able to tell the difference in what they did. Most active practitioners likely couldn't tell the difference between a group of high level karate-ka doing katas, so bad tv.
You either need to make the forms creative and athletic (XMA) or go to competitive fighting (Kickboxing / MMA)
Well said
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
Then again, Jacky Chan isn't exactly traditional MA either.
I suppose it's like wrestling, it's not the real deal (and dont try to tell me it is
) but 'The Rock' and his colleagues are certainly excellent athletes.Funny, in Korea they do not practice self defense in their tkd classes. It is just movement/target drills and sparring....with the occasional poomsae for warm up. If they want self defense then they go to a hapkido school or take Young moo do in college.
And yes, I do think think that XMA is ridiculus to watch. It is a joke designed to lure your kids into signing up for another class/expensive program that will teach them to be cocky and overconfident without merit. Mike Chat should be ashamed for selling out to the ATA like that......He did make a ton of money though.....I need to get a hot chocolate machine...LOL.
No, you can teach kids either good or poor sportsmanship with any activity.
The trick to either is finding something enough kids actually want to do, and are willing to put in the time and effort on. Beyond that it is up to the coach and parents, regardless of whether it is baseball, football, traditional martial arts or XMA.
I was not referring to good or bad sportsmanship. I was referring to the stage presence that some of the XMA students forget to leave on the stage when they are done. Just because you can flip/spin/yell like bruce lee does not make you a good martial artist. Then again, having a black belt does not either.
Don't try and change my wording/add words. I have been a coach for a long time. XMA is a joke. Some like watching it. Some like doing it. Good for them.
I once saw a guy dress up like a chicken and get on a sowboard. That was fun to watch.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Leaving the stage presence on the stage is the very essence of sportsmanship and cockiness is more a function of immaturity than inherent to any particular activity.
Objectively speaking, every point you've made can be made equally for any youth sport. Kids in sports are there as much to learn life lessons as to learn the rules and skills associated with that activity. Cockiness and arrogance is the result of immaturity coupled with success, whether that's in TKD, BJJ or XMA.
Regarding XMA, if you don't like it, that's fine, but at least be honest enough about it to admit that it's your own personal bias. Comparing it to snowboarding in a chicken costume undermines your entire point and, in my opinion, makes you sound kind of petty.
Whatever you've coached, I can't believe you haven't seen the same behavior in some of the kids your team has competed against. Of course, not your own, because I'm sure they're perfect and you've never had any problems with cockiness or arrogance with any of your kids.
zDom
Senior Master
Yea, but Jackie's kicks and punches have the direction of movement and weapon formation to be effective.
It isn't the flash that I object to in XMA; it's that the XMA athletes I've seen seem to have skipped over the basics so that fundamental movements necessary to effective martial arts are missing.
And there are PLENTY of challenging techniques that ARE fundamentally correct that, to me, are way more impressive.
For example, consider a sequence that our late GM Lee H. Park was fond of:
spinning heel to the achilles tendon immediately followed by a jump spinning heel kick to the head, followed immediately by another spinning heel to the achilles tendon.
All done with fundamentals correct: straight leg, foot directly behind the heel so hitting with the backside of the heel (NOT the side of the heel).
Ever try to pull this off combo off? Try just three times in a row (for total of six kicks) and let me know how it works out for ya
I've heard from some of our school's Old Timers that they would walk in to the dojang to see GM Park working this combo striking a speed ball for the head kick, timing flawless so he was hitting the speed ball on each jump.
I've also heard that he USED this combo in self defense (on at least one occassion), only the guy was dropped with the low kick and was so shocked by the strike he wet himself.
This is just one example of real martial arts athleticism that is not only flashy and visually impressive, but practical.
Why waste your time on something flashy that has no other value? That doesn't enhance your ability to defend yourself while also challenging you physically?
That's my take on XMA: it's just not for me. (shrug)
