Annyong Taekwondo

[Rumy73]

I am saying goodbye to TKD. I am 38 and a black belt. While I have enjoyed my time in TKD, many things have added up and turned me off. I am going to explore hapkido and/or krav maga.

Generally speaking, modern TKD only plays lip service to philosophical and spiritual development of students. The booming commercialization of TKD and "sportification" means it is more about "getting a black belt" and winning in tournaments. Those goals are fine, but not why I got started in martial arts. Sorry, if you disagree, but I believe that it is wrong to award “Poomse” black belts to kids and black belts to teens. While they have the technique, they don’t have the life experience. Traditionally, in Asia, a child would never be awarded something of such importance. By doing so in modern society, we’ve watered down the meaning.

As compared to my experiences in Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do, I have noticed a lack of etiquette and respect amongst many TKD practitioners. Yes, many of them are fantastic athletes and fighters, but they are not martial artists. I blame it on their instructors.

The commercial aspect is too over the top. Frankly, I find testing fees to be obnoxious. It is a way to bilk students. The cost of a black belt in Maryland is about $500. This is after a student generally pays $150 a month to train. Second-level dan is $600. Just incredible in the worst kind of way, that is.

Furthermore, I don’t think modern TKD to be welcoming to older people. It is a younger person’s game, because of the sporting emphasis. The fast kicking drills are not good on the knees. I prefer to kick with traditional techniques.

I am off to explore new things. I may not even join another studio. Perhaps I will train on my own or with a friend. At this stage in my life, I could careless about belts and medals. I want knowledge, self improvement and hope to be further humbled in the process. Hopefully, it also promotes inner peace, which I can use in whatever situation arises in life – the true machinations of a martial artist.

Bless and thanks to all who have provided comments and assistance along the way.

 

[Cyriacus]

Good Luck - And its a shame You had a Bad Experience
Just dont fall into the trap now, of Generalizing the Art based on Your Experience.

EDIT: Bad Experience in the end. In the end. Ill leave it like it is, but I feel this should be added for Clarity, just in case.

 

[Rumy73]

While it is my experience. It is not based on one experience. It is based on several personal experiences, discussions with experienced practitioners and intelligent observations.

 

[miguksaram]

I am saying goodbye to TKD. I am 38 and a black belt. While I have enjoyed my time in TKD, many things have added up and turned me off. I am going to explore hapkido and/or krav maga.

Generally speaking, modern TKD only plays lip service to philosophical and spiritual development of students. The booming commercialization of TKD and "sportification" means it is more about "getting a black belt" and winning in tournaments. Those goals are fine, but not why I got started in martial arts.

You will find this in pretty much any art that is being "commercialized" today, even HKD and Krav Maga have their fair share of snake oil salesmen.

Sorry, if you disagree, but I believe that it is wrong to award “Poomse” black belts to kids and black belts to teens. While they have the technique, they don’t have the life experience. Traditionally, in Asia, a child would never be awarded something of such importance. By doing so in modern society, we’ve watered down the meaning.

First off it is Poom belt, not Poomse. And children have been awarded Poom belts in Asia since its inception. It was meant as a child rank until they come of age and can transfer into an adult black belt. I'm not sure where you get that it was never awarded in Asian culture, that is where it originated.

As compared to my experiences in Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do, I have noticed a lack of etiquette and respect amongst many TKD practitioners. Yes, many of them are fantastic athletes and fighters, but they are not martial artists. I blame it on their instructors.

The commercial aspect is too over the top. Frankly, I find testing fees to be obnoxious. It is a way to bilk students. The cost of a black belt in Maryland is about $500. This is after a student generally pays $150 a month to train. Second-level dan is $600. Just incredible in the worst kind of way, that is.

Furthermore, I don’t think modern TKD to be welcoming to older people. It is a younger person’s game, because of the sporting emphasis. The fast kicking drills are not good on the knees. I prefer to kick with traditional techniques.

I am off to explore new things. I may not even join another studio. Perhaps I will train on my own or with a friend. At this stage in my life, I could careless about belts and medals. I want knowledge, self improvement and hope to be further humbled in the process. Hopefully, it also promotes inner peace, which I can use in whatever situation arises in life – the true machinations of a martial artist.

Bless and thanks to all who have provided comments and assistance along the way.

It seems that your experience is focused around your own area of the world. It is sad that is the way things are in your neck of the woods and yes it happens in other areas of the world. However, my main question to you is this; if you see so many problems in your art that you have dedicated so much time into, why not change it for the better? Why simply walk away?

 

[Cyriacus]

While it is my experience. It is not based on one experience. It is based on several personal experiences, discussions with experienced practitioners and intelligent observations.

I realize this - But its also a matter of the circles, locations, themes of the Dojangs, and numerous other factors.
To put it another way, how much did the Dojangs have in common? Like, their Location, Interconnectivity, etc. You meantion a Sport theme, so that speaks volumes as to the circles Youre looking in. Which tragically, is alot of them.

It seems that your experience is focused around your own area of the world. It is sad that is the way things are in your neck of the woods and yes it happens in other areas of the world.

^^

 

[miguksaram]

Let me to elaborate my own experience. I left the "Taekwondo" world several years ago. While I still practiced on my own, I had many of the same feelings Rumy73 has now. I figured why swim upstream when all there waits is a hungry bear. However, I got back into the fold of things when I spoke with Pres. Lee and members of the USTC. Through them I realized I was not alone in my feelings on the direction of TKD. He laid out his vision of TKD which addressed many of the issues I had, but the main issue he addressed was bringing back the art in the martial art. So instead of complaining about the problem, I decided to help the best I can to help with a solution. Even if the only change is just in my own little world at least it is something. After all it only takes a drop of a pebble to cause waves that reach around the entire pond.

 

[Archtkd]

I am saying goodbye to TKD. I am 38 and a black belt. While I have enjoyed my time in TKD, many things have added up and turned me off. I am going to explore hapkido and/or krav maga.

Generally speaking, modern TKD only plays lip service to philosophical and spiritual development of students. The booming commercialization of TKD and "sportification" means it is more about "getting a black belt" and winning in tournaments. Those goals are fine, but not why I got started in martial arts. Sorry, if you disagree, but I believe that it is wrong to award “Poomse” black belts to kids and black belts to teens. While they have the technique, they don’t have the life experience. Traditionally, in Asia, a child would never be awarded something of such importance. By doing so in modern society, we’ve watered down the meaning.

As compared to my experiences in Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do, I have noticed a lack of etiquette and respect amongst many TKD practitioners. Yes, many of them are fantastic athletes and fighters, but they are not martial artists. I blame it on their instructors.

The commercial aspect is too over the top. Frankly, I find testing fees to be obnoxious. It is a way to bilk students. The cost of a black belt in Maryland is about $500. This is after a student generally pays $150 a month to train. Second-level dan is $600. Just incredible in the worst kind of way, that is.

Furthermore, I don’t think modern TKD to be welcoming to older people. It is a younger person’s game, because of the sporting emphasis. The fast kicking drills are not good on the knees. I prefer to kick with traditional techniques.

I am off to explore new things. I may not even join another studio. Perhaps I will train on my own or with a friend. At this stage in my life, I could careless about belts and medals. I want knowledge, self improvement and hope to be further humbled in the process. Hopefully, it also promotes inner peace, which I can use in whatever situation arises in life – the true machinations of a martial artist.

Bless and thanks to all who have provided comments and assistance along the way.

Sad story, but it sounds like you just need to find a new Taekwondo school and teacher. I think the idea that Kukkiwon taekwondo is not for adults is misguided, and unfortunately advanced by quite a number of instructors today, especially is suburban America.

 

[Rumy73]

You will find this in pretty much any art that is being "commercialized" today, even HKD and Krav Maga have their fair share of snake oil salesmen.

First off it is Poom belt, not Poomse. And children have been awarded Poom belts in Asia since its inception. It was meant as a child rank until they come of age and can transfer into an adult black belt. I'm not sure where you get that it was never awarded in Asian culture, that is where it originated.



It seems that your experience is focused around your own area of the world. It is sad that is the way things are in your neck of the woods and yes it happens in other areas of the world. However, my main question to you is this; if you see so many problems in your art that you have dedicated so much time into, why not change it for the better? Why simply walk away?

Being realistic, there's only so much that is in my power to change. Furthermore, my time is very limited. I respect your efforts to reshape TKD in your locality. It is laudable. In my case, I plan to take what I learned and build on it. I was never looking to be a master; rather, I'm looking to be a proficient martial artist. I've become more interested more in self defense as time goes by and less in competition. Of course, there are different perspectives about learning. Some people would argue for a single, deep committment. Others support a broad set of experiences. I am comfortable with saying neither one is wrong. If I had one wish about TKD, it would be for it to develop training for people who are older than their 20s. Right now, it is mostly about kids.

 

[SPX]

. . . but the main issue he addressed was bringing back the art in the martial art.

You know, to be honest, I never really know what people mean when they say this.

 

[texas_rebel_1980]

i believe you need to find a new dojang and instructor. i attend a traditional school and he lets you know that tournaments and trophies are okay, but we are here to learn how to defend ourselves and learn the art. trophies are a side note. i love everything about my dojang.

where i study, there is no such thing as "jr blackbelts" and such. he will not promote anyone to BB before their 18th birthday, in TKD. in HKD I think its 15. I study both TKD and HKD. oh, and if your self defense isn't up to snuff, don't bother testing. pretty kicks aren't enough.

 

[lifespantkd]

I have familiarity with three Taekwondo schools, one in the midwest, two in the Pacific northwest. Two taught the Kukkiwon style of Taekwondo. One of those greatly emphasized Olympic style sparring. Yet, every single one of them was what I would call traditional, in that there was a clear balance between teaching the physical techniques and the underlying philosophy. My experience in the first one (non-Kukkiwon) led me to choose schools with a similar approach later in life. Still, much of my learning about philosophy has been self-directed. But, my teachers are the original inspiration for my desire to learn more about philosophy. As I move toward teaching more, philosophy is a large component of what I teach. That's my way of trying to make a real difference in the lives of my students. In my opinion, Taekwondo is at its best when it is taught/learned/experienced/applied in a comprehensive manner--relevant to every aspect of our lives.

Best wishes in your journey,

Cynthia

 

[sopraisso]

Dear Rumy73,

I believe I agree with most, if not all, you have said. And as well as you, I've been thinking of giving up on taekwondo. But after becoming aware that the problem is not on taekwondo itself, but in the schools and current situation (it was different in the past), I decided to go on, and try to be a small sparkle of change in today's taekwondo scenario.

If the problem is not intrinsic to taekwondo, but more in schools and changes in recent decades, I think not all teachers and dojangs must have been so badly affected (look at people's examples here). Have you looked for other dojangs? Maybe you could find a different one -- I believe this exists. (By the way, maybe your situation is better than mine: there aren't non-sport oriented dojangs in my city!)

As for myself, I'm still on taekwondo. I'm not even a black belt, but I decided I will be. Within some time I will teach, too (but won't make a living on it at all). And I'll try to make a difference in taekwondo, in the city where I live.

I think it will be a great loss for taekwondo if you leave it. It seems you're missing in people who think just like you do. So if you say goodbye, more people will probably miss your way of thinking, too.

You don't have an obligation to teach, exactly, but we all teach people with our pure example in the dojang, anyway.

I think we can see people in this forum who talk about, train and probably teach taekwondo the way we think it should be done. It shows all's not lost. I think you should first try to find people like those here, who think the way you do. I believe in most part I do, and surely we're not the only.

Even if you leave the dojang, if you keep on training, maybe that means you haven't stopped with taekwondo. Taekwondo is a lot about a journey seeking self-improvement, and that's what you are doing, after all. Finally, taekwondo despite of every problems has given us something good. Maybe we could give it something back, too. I believe we'd become proud of it.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I think you have a problem with a certain 'type' of tkd, NOT tkd. Its probably not fair on the art of tkd to tar all of tkd with the same brush, because one type of tkd does not appeal to you. I personally dont like wtf tkd (its just not my thing), but I love tkd. Tkd is just such a broad term these days, it would probably make more sense to say you dont like the type of tkd you are doing. It would be like saying you dont like cricket just because t20 doesnt appeal to you. Tkd is not just for kids either, my class has 50-60 regular students and there are only a couple of kids at the most.

 

[MariaK]

I'm coming from the background where taekwondo (and other martial arts) is not commertialized like in the West. Yes, the perspective is very different, but it is difficult to say what is better. The problem is that when it's not commertiazlied - it means that it is not avaialble to any person (or to general population). In most schools you will not get a black belt until you make a life commitment to it. The usual rate is 1 black belt per year (with hundreds of students) per dojang. It takes about 5-6 years to train to a level of a black belt (and I'm talking about 4-6 two hour sessions per week). No black belts to children, yes, but as an adult you also have to study philosophy, religion etc. You have to write and pass exams - written ones on the history of taekwondo, on Korean culture etc. You will have to learn massage therapy and medicine - as martial arts include this aspect as well. What about changing your religion - as being Christian you can't practice martial arts - the notion of Chi is inferior to Christian values. Yes, the instruction is free of charge as well as belt testing etc. - but it's the master who decides whether your level of commitment is enough to keep you in school. There is no half way in martial arts - you can't practice it as a hobby and expect to become a martial artist. So, is this version better than the "commertial" one?

 

[Cyriacus]

Lets have some fun

I'm coming from the background where taekwondo (and other martial arts) is not commertialized like in the West. Yes, the perspective is very different, but it is difficult to say what is better. The problem is that when it's not commertiazlied - it means that it is not avaialble to any person (or to general population). In most schools you will not get a black belt until you make a life commitment to it.

Mhm.

The usual rate is 1 black belt per year (with hundreds of students) per dojang.

Pretty much the same here.

It takes about 5-6 years to train to a level of a black belt (and I'm talking about 4-6 two hour sessions per week).

More or less the same here.

No black belts to children, yes, but as an adult you also have to study philosophy, religion etc.

...The Children part? Pretty much. The Adult part? Not so much.

You have to write and pass exams - written ones on the history of taekwondo, on Korean culture etc. You will have to learn massage therapy and medicine - as martial arts include this aspect as well. What about changing your religion - as being Christian you can't practice martial arts - the notion of Chi is inferior to Christian values.

That is quite weird.

Yes, the instruction is free of charge as well as belt testing etc. - but it's the master who decides whether your level of commitment is enough to keep you in school. There is no half way in martial arts - you can't practice it as a hobby and expect to become a martial artist. So, is this version better than the "commertial" one?


All of it except for the Religion, is Good.

Ultimately its up to the Individual. I for one line Training 2-3 Hours per Day, 4 Days per Week, and so forth. And at least when You get Your Black Belt, You deserve it to a reasonable extent.

 

[chrispillertkd]

What about changing your religion - as being Christian you can't practice martial arts - the notion of Chi is inferior to Christian values.

I would be very interested in hearing where you are from since no one I know has had to change their religion to practice martial arts.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Rumy73]

I think you have a problem with a certain 'type' of tkd, NOT tkd. Its probably not fair on the art of tkd to tar all of tkd with the same brush, because one type of tkd does not appeal to you. I personally dont like wtf tkd (its just not my thing), but I love tkd. Tkd is just such a broad term these days, it would probably make more sense to say you dont like the type of tkd you are doing. It would be like saying you dont like cricket just because t20 doesnt appeal to you. Tkd is not just for kids either, my class has 50-60 regular students and there are only a couple of kids at the most.

Fair enough. I should have clarified. When I said "modern TKD" I was taking about WTF. I live in DC/MD. Just about every last TKD school is run by Koreans and is WTF. Children/teens make up the greatest portion of the students.

I will continue to train elements of what I learned. I am never going to stop incorporating things along the way. However, I am in search of knowledge, beyond anyone's prefabbed program. I see gaps in my skills and I am seeking to fill them.

 

[Rumy73]

In Korea, martial arts have been commericialized too. I've been there and studied some. I know the language and am close with the culture. I did not state that I have a problem with commercialization, per se. I did state that I think it is over the top. TKD is the largest and most popular of all martial arts, presently. The business is highly competitive. It uses a lot of gimmicks and such to get customers/students. I was not ever bashing the TKD dojang that I attended. However, I am critical about the learning process and the environment. I've visited many dojangs in my area DC/MD, which are predominently run by Koreans, and the physical side is stressed -- along with rewards. Frankly, I'm not sure that people want to delve into the spiritual and soul searching. Lastly, I would contest your point about Buddhists and Christians being incompatible. I am Catholic and have trained and practiced meditation with Korean Buddhists. There was respect and neither side prosleytized the other.

 

[Rumy73]

I will continue to train in some of the things I have learned. Other things, which I don't find meaningful, I am going to set aside to make room for new experiences.

 

[andyjeffries]

I just wanted to wish you luck for the future. I've had some interesting chats with you on here and will miss your comments (even if I haven't always agreed with them). Also thanks to you and your wife for the help with my Korean translations.