American Kenpo Technique Origin

[Ragnar]

I'm curious as to the evolutionary history of Ed Parker's American Kenpo techniques. Where did these techniques come from? Did Mr. Parker create all (or some) of the techniques wholly himself? Was he taught the bulk of the techniques and passed them along, or made modifications to them? For instance, was Delayed Sword a technique that Mr. Parker created completely himself or was that taught to him by William Chow, or did it come from something else entirely? Five Swords? What about all the rest?

Was there a core set of techniques that Mr. Parker leared from Chow that was substantially smaller than the 154 currently taught? Or did Mr. Parker just learn the basics from Chow and create all the techniques, principles, etc. himself? Anyone know the complete story?

Thanks, Ragnar

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Ragnar

I'm curious as to the evolutionary history of Ed Parker's American Kenpo techniques. Where did these techniques come from? Did Mr. Parker create all (or some) of the techniques wholly himself? Was he taught the bulk of the techniques and passed them along, or made modifications to them? For instance, was Delayed Sword a technique that Mr. Parker created completely himself or was that taught to him by William Chow, or did it come from something else entirely? Five Swords? What about all the rest?

Was there a core set of techniques that Mr. Parker leared from Chow that was substantially smaller than the 154 currently taught? Or did Mr. Parker just learn the basics from Chow and create all the techniques, principles, etc. himself? Anyone know the complete story?

Thanks, Ragnar

I do know that Delayed Sword was originally called "Inward Defense". The order went - Block, Chop, Kick. However due to poor mechanics, the kick was being done with little or no result. So Mr. Parker rearranged the order to - Block, Kick, Chop and delayed the sword to the neck, hence "Delayed Sword".

If my memory serves me correctly, Five Swords was done all right handed. Mr. Parker incorporated the rear hand into the flow of the technique while improving the techniques. I beleive he was taught that technique by Chow.

Can anyone clarify that for me?:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Ragnar
I'm curious as to the evolutionary history of Ed Parker's American Kenpo techniques.

Where did these techniques come from?

The Initial techniques came from the training and self defense, basics and Keys that Chow taught Ed Parker, along with his many street confrontations.

Did Mr. Parker create all (or some) of the techniques wholly himself?

Mr. Parker would teach run class in the traditional manner in which most of us still do today.... warm up exercises, basics, and then work on self defense or sparring.

During the Self Defense portion he would have a central theme in mind.... say punches. Then he would demonstrate different possibilities ... such as step forward or back...... using the inward block on the inside or outside or the extended outward on the inside or outside and all sorts of different variations...... then would put together a few movements after the key block and have everybody work on them. Soon these techniques were named and organized in groups.

As he evolved through the years and developed the Web of knowledge, he began organizing the curriculum and the key techniques and forms into some order.

A huge key was reverse motion. That changed much of the material. One of his biggest discoveries.

The Universal Pattern also was a great help as the clock principle to diagram out movements and show paths, lines, and many different angles of defense and attack.

Many people had a hand along the way to help him in class as guinea pigs and also brought in questions that he had to analyze and think about which he loved. The complete process was always Ed Parkers stamp being applied so No one person could claim that he did it. Tom Kelly, Huk Planas, Tom Gow, James Ibroa, Chuck Sullivan, Al Tracy, Tom Connor, were many of the old guys in the beginning, of course there are many new ones as well that helped him immensely through out the 70's and 80's up until his passing.

Was he taught the bulk of the techniques and passed them along, or made modifications to them?

No, as mentioned above, some of the material other than key basics and movements were retained and modified, but very few as much was filed because he didn't think much of it would work ........ so he created his own.

For instance, was Delayed Sword (or Five Swords or the rest of the techniques) a technique that Mr. Parker created completely himself or was that taught to him by William Chow, or did it come from something else entirely?

No, these were not taught by Chow. He did witness Chow break a guys arm once in a move that we now call Lone Kimono ....... that is the origin of that technique.

Was there a core set of techniques that Mr. Parker learned from Chow that was substantially smaller than the 154 currently taught?

Yes, in those days.... it was mainly basics and sparring with a little bit of self defense individual training such as "tricks" to show grab releases and an idea of how to break a bear hug etc. very crude

Did Mr. Parker just learn the basics from Chow and create all the techniques, principles, etc. himself? Anyone know the complete story?Thanks, Ragnar

Yes, that is exactly what happened. (or at least a very quick overview of the historical perspective that I share)

:asian:

 

[Zoran]

First, I must say I am from one of those evil Parker Kenpo off-shoot systems...booo...hisss...go back where you came from...

Anyway, when John McSweeney was with SGM Parker back in 59-62, he quite often went with him to China Town to visit the Kung Fu masters. Back in those days, that was unheard of for a non-Asian American. Then there is the Jimmy Woo thing that I will leave alone!!

There is a tech in our system called flying hammers that is similar to thundering hammers. The major difference between those two techs is ours uses more elongated strikes than SGM's. John McSweeney told me that it's origins was a Crane Kung Fu system. I believe the version we do is closer to the way the original tech was performed. Of course SGM Parker had modified it to the point that it's really a different tech altogether.

As for all the others, I couldn't tell you. Just glad you didn't ask about the forms.

Okay, I'm done stirring the pot. I will now assume the position for my spanking. :moon:
:rofl:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Yes, Mr. Parker was one of the very few that was able to crack the "China Town Connection" LOL, and he did allow a few to go in with him. This is no secret.... Ed Parker was an investigator and digger. He was interested in what worked, how and why. If he saw something that was good and effective ........ of course he analyized it an formulated it into something we could benefit from. Thanks to his base principle of "LOGIC" over tradition we have one of the best Martial Arts today.

And go ahead ...... talk about the forms.......

:asian:

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Zoran

Then there is the Jimmy Woo thing that I will leave alone!!

Jimmy Woo thing....?

Ian.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by satans.barber

Jimmy Woo thing....?

Go ahead Z-Rex start on Woo.......

 

[Zoran]

Understand that this is how the story was related to me by a man who was there. Also, it should be noted that this a man who had nothing but love and respect to the "Old Man". I will try to give the short version.

Back when EPAK was not EPAK yet, the system did not have forms. Mr. McSweeney once visited Trias at his school. Trias told McSweeney, "Tell Parker that he needs to get some forms into his system." When Mr. McSweeney told his teacher what Trias said, he nodded and smiled. A short time later, he brought a Kung Fu stylist in, Jimmy Woo.

Jimmy Woo began to teach Ed Parker's students Kung Fu forms. I believe he was there for quite a while teaching forms and other concepts. Some time in the mid 60's, SGM Parker and Woo had a falling out. (can't give you details on why, McSweeney was in Ireland at the time. Don't want to relate 3rd and 4th hand stories) When Jimmy Woo left, he took Ibrao, Flores, Montgomery, and several other senior students followed. This had hurt Ed Parker quite a bit.

Anyway, that's about as far I wish to go with the story without adding conjecture and hearsay. As in the example of "Thundering Hammers", some of the forms origins was Kung Fu. Remember, I said "origins". The forms have evolved to the point that they are completely different from the original.

This is just a historical side note. This knowledge will not make you a better Kenpoist. Only training will do that.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Zoran, that is pretty close to the way I was told the story.... I think the problem came when Wing Woo became a little too close to the students for Ed Parker's liking (Remember, they were EP's Students first anyway) and as such Ed Parker could or would maintain his place as the HEAD instructor and have final say over any and all material that was being developed (do you see a problem brewing). Many of the students saw differently and thought that Ed Parker didn't know much more and chose to do what they did.

Yes, the Ed Parker learned the skeletal layouts for forms and proceeded to develop and change and make his personal stamp on the Forms strictly Ed Parker and not anyone else's ....... thus not allowing anyone else to lay claim to HIS forms ......... the rest is history.

Many didn't realize the drive, logic and creativity that he possessed. He continued this process until the day he died. Teaching his close students the same thing along the way.

Sometimes hardships and problems ....... create great outcomes!

:asian:

 

[Zoran]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Many of the students saw differently and thought that Ed Parker didn't know much more and chose to do what they did.

Yup, and I'm sure there were a lot of people in 1980 that said Microsoft won't last. :shrug:

Oh well, they missed out. There were quite a few of Ed Parker's students that went their own way, with Ed Parker's blessing. There is a right way, and a wrong way. From all the stories I've heard, that was the wrong way. No loyalty or respect.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Hind sight is 20/20
:asian:

 

[nathan_sau]

Very interesting indeed, i never had herd it all put in that perspective, it sucks being so far away you miss out on so much...

Oh well.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Now you know..........

:asian:

 

[WilliamTLear]

When you get too close to a fire you can get burned if yu're not careful. Sometimes distance really is your best friend. :lol:

Take care,
Billy Lear

 

[Kenpolane]

Originally posted by Zoran


When Jimmy Woo left, he took Ibrao, Flores, Montgomery, and several other senior students followed. This had hurt Ed Parker quite a bit.



This is why I have Great Respect for Chuck Sullivan !
He could have very well went with the crowd but showed his Loyalty to Mr. Parker.

 

[Goldendragon7]

I also agree and feel that way but, he was not the only one, and this was early on.... later Chuck went his own way as well.

:asian:

 

[Kenpolane]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

I also agree and feel that way but, he was not the only one, and this was early on.... later Chuck went his own way as well.

:asian: I think Danny Insanto was around after that too . Right?

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Kenpolane
[BI think Danny Insanto was around after that too . Right
[/B]

To my knowledge Danny left later with Bruce Lee ....... but after some time, many of these guys smoothed over some of thier differences with Mr. Parker and he was friendly towards them (kept his distance but was publically friendly).

:asian:

 

[SolidTiger]

Wow the story of kenpo is one big soap opera....

But I guess thats why this art is so famous.

much respect

SolidTiger

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by SolidTiger

Wow the story of kenpo is one big soap opera....

But I guess thats why this art is so famous.

much respect

SolidTiger

In seeing that Kenpo was created by Human Beings, from the planet EARTH... It is feasible to say that some dramatic and emotional events might have taken place during it's formulation. I wouldn't trivialize it as Soap Opera though.

And... I find nothing RESPECTFUL about your statement. :shrug: