ACLU Sues School Over Gay Pride Shirt Ban

[shesulsa]

Paul what you said make a lot of sense and if I can add a little I'd appreciate your tolerance.

First of all, I think the T-shirt reading "Gay Pride" is a political, not sexual, statement and attempts to forward the interests of equality. That said, perhaps all public displays of political preference or interest or whatever on the part of anyone enrolled in a public educational facility should be banned. I dunno exactly how comfortable I am with this, but ... it's a possibility, I suppose.

Second of all, I agree that the people who should be subject to disciplinary action in this instance is the bullies. Saying that wearing the t-shirt was asking for trouble is like saying a woman wearing no panties and flirting in a bar is asking to get raped - it's nonsense (I'm not saying you said this, I'm just making a relavant point to segue to the next sentence). So if the t-shirt message ban were to be enacted, this teen should not be subject to any disciplinary action, but be warned to not wear the shirt in the future.

Third, my concern is how we impart the knowledge of peaceful demonstration and protest if we squash opinions held by our youth? How do we find a way for them to express their ideas and explore their feelings about topics and examine their values in an educational, peer-based setting without allowing the freedom we are inclinced to deny them based on the irresponsible behavior of a few?

 

[Feisty Mouse]

To bring up a point in defense of the administration though, would it be acceptable for hetero students to be wearing tshirts that promote heterosexual pride? Not in a school IMO.

Firstly, it is an academic/citizen building environment where underage students are being taught (hopefully) about cooperation, diversity respect and other issues specifically because they don't automatically have those skills/understandings in place.

If the school is going to be proactive or take a positive direction with this issue, it should take the bullies to task that are being inappropriate. It should enforce the dress code that makes ANY sexually specific clothing/wording clearly unacceptable in school and it should definitely be encouraging, educating and rewarding character actions and development: I don't care if it is race, creed, religion or sexual preference - hostility and bullying are not acceptable. Nor is any clothing that is going to detract from academic pursuits: whether it is the short tops/skirts for girls or novelty tshirts of any inappropriate nature for all students.

This is a fine point - I would just then expect the school to go after the other t-shirts that were not addressed and worn by heterosexual students.

 

[Melissa426]

I think the basic idea is that you shouldn't have to change your shirt to avoid getting beat up - if others have homophobia or hate issues, they are the ones who have the problem, not a kid wearing a t-shirt that isn't blatantly rude - like a religious shirt, or a gay pride shirt.

Admitting that the lynch mob should have the right of way in this debate is two steps back, I think.

YOU are absolutely right.
No one should be beaten up because of a t-shirt.

My friends resolved their son's issue by making the kid who beat him tutor their son in math for their next several months. While he is in the home, they have contemporary Christian music playing and they will sit down as a family and pray when this boy is at their home.

The lynch "mob" should be tracked, hunted down, and punished, individually.

Would you agree that it is OK for a Muslim American to walk thru the halls of a predominantly Jewish High School wearing a t-shirt that says Muslim Pride?

Peace,
Melissa

 

[Melissa426]

So he's three for one. But thanks for holding me to a higher standard. I'll try and do better.


Regards,


Steve

You're welcome.
When I read posts, I always consider the source.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[Feisty Mouse]

YOU are absolutely right.
No one should be beaten up because of a t-shirt.

My friends resolved their son's issue by making the kid who beat him tutor their son in math for their next several months. While he is in the home, they have contemporary Christian music playing and they will sit down as a family and pray when this boy is at their home.

The lynch "mob" should be tracked, hunted down, and punished, individually.

Would you agree that it is OK for a Muslim American to walk thru the halls of a predominantly Jewish High School wearing a t-shirt that says Muslim Pride?

Peace,
Melissa

I sure would! The predominantly Jewish students would have to, and should be able to, deal with it, just as any other religious, ethnic, or political group would have to.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Would you agree that it is OK for a Muslim American to walk thru the halls of a predominantly Jewish High School wearing a t-shirt that says Muslim Pride?

I would. Even if he wore a shirt that said, "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet."

He'd probably have it a little easier at a largely Jewish school than in a largely Protestant school in Selma, Alabama.

I'll have to get a shirt like that and go south sometime. Nah. With my knee, I wouldn't be able to get away from the mob.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Makalakumu]

To bring up a point in defense of the administration though, would it be acceptable for hetero students to be wearing tshirts that promote heterosexual pride? Not in a school IMO.

Firstly, it is an academic/citizen building environment where underage students are being taught (hopefully) about cooperation, diversity respect and other issues specifically because they don't automatically have those skills/understandings in place.

If the school is going to be proactive or take a positive direction with this issue, it should take the bullies to task that are being inappropriate. It should enforce the dress code that makes ANY sexually specific clothing/wording clearly unacceptable in school and it should definitely be encouraging, educating and rewarding character actions and development: I don't care if it is race, creed, religion or sexual preference - hostility and bullying are not acceptable. Nor is any clothing that is going to detract from academic pursuits: whether it is the short tops/skirts for girls or novelty tshirts of any inappropriate nature for all students.

Just curious, have you read any Alfie Kohn? He suggests that the traditional response to deviant behavior is to make everyone do and act the same. He also says that this only results in different types of devient behavior which is what I'm getting from your post.

I feel, and agree with Mr. Kohn, that teaching children that being different is okay and expected in school might be a better way to instill tolerance in our students...eventually eliminating the above behaviors through acceptance. Unfortuneately, a large problem with this is that the schools are only one small step. Society itself would need a large overhaul...

 

[Makalakumu]

I sure would! The predominantly Jewish students would have to, and should be able to, deal with it, just as any other religious, ethnic, or political group would have to.

Just "dealing with it" might be harder then you think. A jewish student from Isreal who watched someone he or she loved die in a sueicide bombing might really have a hard time dealing this this. They may view it as a slap in the face.

Which is how I think many people view a gay pride shirt. If you have been taught from the cradle that homosexuality is wrong, then suddenly finding acceptance is probably not going to happen. I'm not sure how to be sensative to this and still push for a society that is equal for everyone.

Yet, I think that somehow recognizing this difficulty is a first step toward actually accomplishing the above. I know that just telling a person to "deal with it" brings on a defensiveness that makes learning impossible.

upnorthkyosa

PS - Many of you have used the above phrase "just deal with it" and I don't mean to be putting words in anyones mouths by injecting a meaning that wasn't there. Yet, I believe that liberals, in general, have gone wrong by not recognizing the above.

 

[Satt]

Do you think school uniforms are a good thing or bad thing? (anyone) And why?

 

[Ping898]

Do you think school uniforms are a good thing or bad thing? (anyone) And why?

I see nothing wrong with them. Make them reasonable to all can afford them. Try and put people on an equal plane. Hopefully avoid situations were gang violence erupts cause of certain colors or clothes worn, avoid offence from T-shirts and create a level playing field for those that can't afford the expensive clothing. As far as I am concerned school is a place to learn. A place should exist where kids are allowed to completely express themselves, and there should be a place where they get other point of views besides the one's mom and dad have been hammering in. I am not sure exactly where that should be, but I don't think it should be during math class.

 

[Deuce]

I think school uniforms have their pros and cons. As mentioned before, uniforms would decrease the social status differences involing money and expensive attire. Children whose parents are strapped for cash and can't afford brand name jeans or shoes, will not feel as left out because they won't have to wear their "out-dated" hand-me-downs. Obviously the uniforms would also eliminate such dress codes issues as to what is appropriate in a school setting. Beatings or threats for shoes or jackets in school would also be eliminated.

I went to a small school in south Saskatchewan, which had a strong farming and ranching influence. You could tell who lived on a farm or ranched just by observing what people were wearing. The kids who ranched were proud of it, and they dressed the part with Wranglers, cowboy boots, etc.. I lived in town and always wore heavy metal t-shirts, thick chain on my wallet, long goatee, etc.. I looked like a punk that was up to no good. I was smart and always got fairly high marks. When I first moved to this town, my English teacher assumed I was a dumb**s because of the way I looked, so she gave me crapy marks based on my appearance and not my ability. When she saw my other marks, she told my mother that she felt silly for the low marks because she didn't realize how smart I was. After that, my English marks magically improved.

My point is, the way you dress in school is an expression of yourself, and can give people an idea of what you're like or who you are. Unfortunately, these assumptions can often be a misconception of the truth.

Uniforms would solve a lot of issues, but would eliminate one's development of individuality and expression.