A serious question about testing and time in grade

terryl965

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I have a three part question and I am really looking for some serious input. I am in a debate with several instructors.

1 part) In Korea the average is meerly a year to get to 1st Dan or poom, what is the actual curriculum look like for this timeframe? And how often do they test and the time frame between grades?


2nd part) My understanding was there is no physical test for 8,9, and 10 and the only way you get to tenth is by death or become the KKW president? I cannot find anything on this anywhere so all the info I could get would be appreciated.


3rd part) Some are saying that the ITF and WTF are coming real close to becoming one again? Does anybody know if this is still going on and if so does anybody have any clue how the two would merge since both are completely different? I know they was talking a few years ago but I thought they had stopped and it was dead.


Thank you all for any info on this so I can be more informed during these decussions.
 

chrispillertkd

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3rd part) Some are saying that the ITF and WTF are coming real close to becoming one again? Does anybody know if this is still going on and if so does anybody have any clue how the two would merge since both are completely different? I know they was talking a few years ago but I thought they had stopped and it was dead.

This seems not just unlikely but incredibly unlikely.

It is true that the ROK and the DPRK had Taekwon-Do listed as a topic of discussion for their last round of talks, but the way things stand between the countries now I don't know how far the talks are going to go in the first place. Besides which, with the state of the ITF after Gen. Choi's death the ROK is only in talks with ITF-NK. The other two groups have little interest in uniting with the WTF/KKW from what I have seen.

That being said, ITF-C has had two World Championship in South Korea and has twice held events at the World Taekwon-Do Festival. Last I heard, they were also planning on moving their offices back to South Korea. But I don't see them interested in being "merged" with the WTF or KKW. I don't think ITF-V is even holding any events in Korea (though I could be wrong) and they seem thoroughly uninterested in what the WTF or KKW is doing.

You're quite right that both organizations teach arts that are very different, and I don't mean just different pattern sets. There would be little to gain by unifying, IMNSHO.

Pax,

Chris
 

andyjeffries

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2nd part) My understanding was there is no physical test for 8,9, and 10

Kukkiwon Promotion Regulations, Article 7, Section 4. Applicants worldwide for 8th and 9th Dan promotion should take physical performance test at the Kukkiwon. The test is conducted in every quarter of the year. Test of applicants from outside Korea for 7th or lower Dan can be conducted under the joint inspection of the local higher Dan holder and the member of the test committee dispatched by the Kukkiwon to the country or the region concerned.
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination08.jsp
 

puunui

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1 part) In Korea the average is meerly a year to get to 1st Dan or poom, what is the actual curriculum look like for this timeframe? And how often do they test and the time frame between grades?

The Kukkiwon Textbook has a curriculum laid out according to guep rank. I have no idea how often schools in Korea test. I would think that would be up to the individual instructor.


2nd part) My understanding was there is no physical test for 8,9, and 10 and the only way you get to tenth is by death or become the KKW president? I cannot find anything on this anywhere so all the info I could get would be appreciated.

Like andy said, you have to take your physical test at the Kukkiwon in Korea. 10th Dan is an honorary dan and there is no test for that. There are two Kukkiwon 10th Dans that are living: Mr. Juan Antonio Sammaranch and Dr. Un Yong Kim. The others are Taekwondoin who have passed away.


3rd part) Some are saying that the ITF and WTF are coming real close to becoming one again? Does anybody know if this is still going on and if so does anybody have any clue how the two would merge since both are completely different? I know they was talking a few years ago but I thought they had stopped and it was dead.

If there is talk of a merger, it would be to gain North Korea's vote on whether to keep Taekwondo in the Olympic Games or not. that vote is held by Mr. CHANG Ung, president of one of the ITFs. I want to say that merger with ITF NK was one of the recommendations of the WTF Ad Hoc Committee commissioned by newly elected WTF President Choue in 2005. But that front has been very quiet. Personally, I do not think there every will be a merger between ITF and WTF, because I don't think either side is interested at this point.
 

andyjeffries

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The Kukkiwon Textbook has a curriculum laid out according to guep rank

Really? I don't remember seeing that in the Kukkiwon textbook. I'll have another look through tonight then (as I'm VERY interested in seeing it).

Do you mean the publicly available textbook or are you referring to the book given to KKW Instructor Course trainees?
 

puunui

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Really? I don't remember seeing that in the Kukkiwon textbook. I'll have another look through tonight then (as I'm VERY interested in seeing it).

Page 110 of the latest Kukkiwon Textbook. It lays out theories and techniques from Mooguep (no guep) through "over 7th Dan". The explanation of the dan levels broadly cover the topics I covered in my explanation of the poomsae. Also, it does mention "bodan" or probationary dan. The Textbook covers no guep, then starts at 8th guep to bodan, which is ten levels, so tests in Korea are probably every month, or every other month if you are double promoting like the Chung Do Kwan did.

I would read the Textbook from cover to cover. If you don't do that, you miss a lot of stuff. In fact, if you might want to read all of the versions of the Kukkiwon Textbook from cover to cover, if you are really into it.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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1 part) In Korea the average is meerly a year to get to 1st Dan or poom, what is the actual curriculum look like for this timeframe? And how often do they test and the time frame between grades?
I have no comment on parts two and three, but regarding the above, I suspect that it would depend on the school, though the most logical breakdown would be one test per geub level, which would essentially call for monthly tests. If the school uses a dan bo, then including ildan, that is twelve tests. If not, then ten tests and two months between ilgeub and ildan.

With only a year, there isn't a whole lot of room for varation outside of testing for more than one geub at a time.

As for what the curriculum would look like, eight taegeuk pumse, all of the assorted blocks and strikes, and learning WTF sparring. Again, with only a year, there isn't much room for add on material.

Daniel
 

tinker1

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My experience in the US is that geup ranks vary quite a lot in number and amount of time between each. I've encountered schools with up to 14 geup ranks...

With my instructors time between dan ranks varies quite a lot too. The tradition I was taught is that the number of years between one dan and the next dan are (roughly) equal to the dan that is being tested for. For example, 1st Dan to 2nd Dan = 2 years ; 2nd Dan to 3rd Dan = 3 years - etc.
 

andyjeffries

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Page 110 of the latest Kukkiwon Textbook. It lays out theories and techniques from Mooguep (no guep) through "over 7th Dan". The explanation of the dan levels broadly cover the topics I covered in my explanation of the poomsae. Also, it does mention "bodan" or probationary dan.

That last part is that part that rings a bell for me and reminds me of the page - I've used that page in arguments in the past when people have argued that "cho dan bo" as it's been referred to is an independent thing and the Kukkiwon has no such concept. It's the only mention of it in the entire book, but it obviously shows their awareness of it.

I would read the Textbook from cover to cover. If you don't do that, you miss a lot of stuff.

I have, a few times. The reason is that I have a useless memory from even the slowest read through a book. I've found over the years that what works best for me is multiple reads through at a faster pace. So with it being such an important work, I have read it cover to cover a few times.

I'd just forgotten this page (knowing that the Kukkiwon doesn't normally care too much about Kup grades).

In fact, if you might want to read all of the versions of the Kukkiwon Textbook from cover to cover, if you are really into it.

Unfortunately I only have the latest one, otherwise I would :) I've read both editions of GM Kang Ik Pil's poomsae book cover to cover multiple times too, but they are much smaller books :)

Can you still get the older versions of the Kukkiwon textbook online anywhere?
 

andyjeffries

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My experience in the US is that geup ranks vary quite a lot in number and amount of time between each. I've encountered schools with up to 14 geup ranks...

Maybe it's just different in the UK, but I haven't known a club over here to have anything other than 10 geup ranks.

With my instructors time between dan ranks varies quite a lot too. The tradition I was taught is that the number of years between one dan and the next dan are (roughly) equal to the dan that is being tested for. For example, 1st Dan to 2nd Dan = 2 years ; 2nd Dan to 3rd Dan = 3 years - etc.

The BTCB Syllabus (which also has listings for each geup rank) follows the Kukkiwon standard of years equal to the grade you are (not the grade you're going for).
 

puunui

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I have, a few times. The reason is that I have a useless memory from even the slowest read through a book. I've found over the years that what works best for me is multiple reads through at a faster pace. So with it being such an important work, I have read it cover to cover a few times.

Good job. A lot of people buy the book, flip through it maybe once, concentrating on the pictures, then put it on the shelf and never touch it again. Reading the textbook is good preparation for the Kukkiwon Instructor Course.


Can you still get the older versions of the Kukkiwon textbook online anywhere?

They are available online from amazon and ebay. Start with the small white one published by the WTF in 1975 and go from there.
 

andyjeffries

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Good job. A lot of people buy the book, flip through it maybe once, concentrating on the pictures, then put it on the shelf and never touch it again. Reading the textbook is good preparation for the Kukkiwon Instructor Course.

Thanks. I like learning, so little details from the Kukkiwon Textbook are important to me - even if I later forget some, I'll get them on the next read through, or the one after that. It's like a gift that keeps on giving, every read gives me something new to remember.

They are available online from amazon and ebay. Start with the small white one published by the WTF in 1975 and go from there.

Thanks, I'll get payday out of the way and then have a bit of a book purchase spree :)
 
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