A Question of Practicality

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Cliarlaoch

Guest
Hallo, folks,

Here's a question for you. There's been a lot of talk by myself and others about the need to place emphasis in the martial arts upon the training of the individual and the develop of the student as a martial artist, as opposed to McDojo-style training. I would like to ask how it is we as students and instructors can actively apply this idea of responsible and serious training in our everyday lives as martial artists?

In other words, how do you go about, as an instructor or student, teaching yourself and others in such a way that you learn the techniques and elements of the martial arts that make you the best you can be? (Okay, that wasn't all that much clearer, I know :p )

How can we make sure that we put emphasis on learning the technique properly, so that it is practically effective, and so as to meet the desired goal of developing the student's (and the instructor's) abilities as a MA and as a person?
 
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MountainSage

Guest
This may not totally answer your question. There are Instructors and there are Teachers. Instructors go by the numbers and collect money for that. The art and students are not improved,just given instruction. A teacher can and will teach all aspects of the MA from skills to way to improve your daily life through the MA. Improve the MA by being a teacher of others. Place emphasis on serving others and improving the skills of those of lower rank that you teach. I believe if a philosophical thing.

Mountain Sage
 

Chronuss

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I can only speak for myself, but others may share my view. I really enjoy teaching the kids class at the school I attend when I don't have classes or work. I feel when I teach the kids, it gives me a review of the lower rank techniques and principles and also allows me to see how younger and other people learn. it also lets me see how other people execute techniques and where I personally need to improve as well as help to improve other students. it also gives a sense and feeling of gratification to know that I helped this person learn such and such a technique or showed them how to keep their balance when executing a kick or showing the value of a certain block. I think to be able to learn effectively, you have to teach, because it shows what areas yourself as a person needs to attend to and practice.
 
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Cliarlaoch

Guest
Hm.... some good responses, but perhaps I've missed the mark in my question, and I do admit that it is difficult to be explicitly clear in this issue... but my point in asking was, do you feel there are certain PRACTICAL STEPS to take in teaching the MAs to ensure quality, and if so, what are they? This may be a hard one to answer.

--Cliarlaoch
 

Brother John

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In other words, how do you go about, as an instructor or student, teaching yourself and others in such a way that you learn the techniques and elements of the martial arts that make you the best you can be? (Okay, that wasn't all that much clearer, I know

clear enough.
The sad truth is that 80-90% of people are not willing to go through what it would really take.
Your Brother
John
 
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fringe_dweller

Guest
Not sure if this is a halpful suggestion to you at all but in our school you *must* complete a certain number of classes before you are eligible to grade.
I find the biggest compromise in quality (after my grand two years of experience!) is caused by people who are more interested in gaining belt levels than they are in learning and training.

Respectfully,
 

Matt Stone

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In our Yiliquan group, we begin very simply.

At first, juniors worry about building a strong foundation - stable stances, agile footwork, understanding angles of movement, developing the body memory needed to apply techniques efficiently and powerfully.

Along the way, they also get introduced to joint locks, throws, weapons defenses and forms.

When we train, we will start with some selected techniques, selected combinations, particular movement theories and a particular form (we usually work on a given form for quite a while, though others are run for practice). All the techniques, combos, movement theories and such all come from the form we are examining at the time. Everything is tied together, allowing the student to put everything into the proper context.

We don't hamstring our students by saying "this is the only way." Actually, I get frustrated pretty often because our senior instructor is very flexible on what is and is not "legitimate" when interpreting a technique - if it works, it is legitimate! :D

Then, toward the end of training, we put it all together and pound all hell out of each other using what we had been working on... Good fun and bruises are had by all!

I think the questionable training is that which is done with never a chance of even accidental contact, but is touted as being the most dangerous art ever conceived... ;)

Gambarimasu.
:asian:
 
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chufeng

Guest
YiLiQuan1 lays it out nicely...

The "root" of good technique comes from the stance...and I'm not talking about posing...A solid base is essential to deliver strong technique...so we spend a good deal of time developing the base in our beginners...

For the beginning student, it is difficult for him/her to focus on more than one (or possibly two) techniques per class...to push more than that yields poor results (sensory overload)...and that comes largely from our breaking down the movement of a technique into it's smaller parts...working each part...and then putting it back together...(of course thousands of repetitions of a movement, done correctly, will eventually make the movement second nature.

We throw in some of the "fun" (joint locks, etc.) stuff to keep them interested (make the apparent boring stuff worthwhile to them...even though the boring stuff IS the most important part)

When I run drills...I am more likely to correct someone's stance than the punch thrown...when the stances are coming along nicely, I'll start working on the upper body...then on moving smoothly as a single unit...

All of that said, our forms breakdown is the same...basic technique is explored, then "hidden" techniques (they are only hidden because the key to deciphering them hasn't been discovered by the student, yet...1+1=2 was hidden until addition was learned)...then on to the more esoteric aspects of the form...

The techniques within the form are examined at great length...

How quickly one gets promoted is irrelevant...WHAT the student learns IS. So we downplay rank and focus on learning...probably not a very good way to run a business, but I don't do this for a living...but it is my life.

:asian:
chufeng
 
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chufeng

Guest
YiLiQuan1 lays it out nicely...

The "root" of good technique comes from the stance...and I'm not talking about posing...A solid base is essential to deliver strong technique...so we spend a good deal of time developing the base in our beginners...

For the beginning student, it is difficult for him/her to focus on more than one (or possibly two) techniques per class...to push more than that yields poor results (sensory overload)...and that comes largely from our breaking down the movement of a technique into it's smaller parts...working each part...and then putting it back together...(of course thousands of repetitions of a movement, done correctly, will eventually make the movement second nature.

We throw in some of the "fun" (joint locks, etc.) stuff to keep them interested (make the apparent boring stuff worthwhile to them...even though the boring stuff IS the most important part)

When I run drills...I am more likely to correct someone's stance than the punch thrown...when the stances are coming along nicely, I'll start working on the upper body...then on moving smoothly as a single unit...

All of that said, our forms breakdown is the same...basic technique is explored, then "hidden" techniques (they are only hidden because the key to deciphering them hasn't been discovered by the student, yet...1+1=2 was hidden until addition was learned)...then on to the more esoteric aspects of the form...

The techniques within the form are examined at great length...

How quickly one gets promoted is irrelevant...WHAT the student learns IS. So we downplay rank and focus on learning...probably not a very good way to run a business, but I don't do this for a living...but it is my life.

:asian:
chufeng
 
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chufeng

Guest
YiLiQuan1 lays it out nicely...

The "root" of good technique comes from the stance...and I'm not talking about posing...A solid base is essential to deliver strong technique...so we spend a good deal of time developing the base in our beginners...

For the beginning student, it is difficult for him/her to focus on more than one (or possibly two) techniques per class...to push more than that yields poor results (sensory overload)...and that comes largely from our breaking down the movement of a technique into it's smaller parts...working each part...and then putting it back together...(of course thousands of repetitions of a movement, done correctly, will eventually make the movement second nature.

We throw in some of the "fun" (joint locks, etc.) stuff to keep them interested (make the apparent boring stuff worthwhile to them...even though the boring stuff IS the most important part)

When I run drills...I am more likely to correct someone's stance than the punch thrown...when the stances are coming along nicely, I'll start working on the upper body...then on moving smoothly as a single unit...

All of that said, our forms breakdown is the same...basic technique is explored, then "hidden" techniques (they are only hidden because the key to deciphering them hasn't been discovered by the student, yet...1+1=2 was hidden until addition was learned)...then on to the more esoteric aspects of the form...

The techniques within the form are examined at great length...

How quickly one gets promoted is irrelevant...WHAT the student learns IS. So we downplay rank and focus on learning...probably not a very good way to run a business, but I don't do this for a living...but it is my life.

:asian:
chufeng
 
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chufeng

Guest
Sorry about the additional posts...my computer showed nothing when I attempted to post the first time...so I hit the button again and again...

:asian:
chufeng
 
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sweeper

Guest
well I don't realy teach so this is strictly from the students perspective.

First I would say when rank is an issue, that is to say there are classes only higher ranks can attend or higher ranks get speciel privleges or whatever, people will just want to get to that rank and they don't care so much about learning. If rank isn't an issue than all people can realy see is ability and the only reason to be there is to get better (I guess some people still get distracted by things like trying to outspar everyone else or maybe just an individual).

Second I would agree about footwork and stance, it seems to me alot of people don't practice footwork because they don't see an emediate gain, so explaining how everything ties together is very important just so thestudent understands the mechanics of what you are doing.

Third Some people are just gona put more in than others, every one has diffrent aptitudes but some people just don't give it their all, and I tihnk teachers are gona have a major headache trying to teach them to put more in, rather I think they should let students put in what they want but tell them if they don't put in the effort they will not get any better.

And last, As a student fairly early on in my martial training I like to see the most straight forward applications of technique and princable, if it isn't to the point or my teacher can't adaquitly explain why "I" would want to do it chances are I'm not gona do it. I have noticed that some of the more experienced MAists I'm around can nail things in sparring that I have troubal doing off a feed. Now I might practice it but If I have no intention of doing it I'm not going to be thinking about it unless it's brought up in class.. That is to say I would concentrate on biomechanicly simple techniques first and always explain why and where it's going to go.
 
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chufeng

Guest
Sweeper,

I understand...and, in fact, we do explain the "whys?" of the particular movement...we demonstrate the why and the why not of an alternative...for example: heel planted for a punch or punch off of the ball of the foot...which is better? We will show why one is better than the other...

It all gets down to many details that can confound a student if he doesn't have a reason to "go there." If he can see why we spend so much time on a given aspect of a technique, then he is willing to stick it out and see what's next...

Thanks for your feedback.

:asian:
chufeng
 
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MartialArtist

Guest
A teacher DOES WAY MORE than teach you how to fight.

A teacher teaches you how to avoid fights, what to do during fights (other people), how to get around fights, and if necessary, to fight back. A teacher will also teach you valuable life lessons and build character. He will guide you through every learning step, every obstacle, and will never give up on you as long as you never give up on yourself.

An instructor will teach you to fight. Sometimes, he teaches garbage. He will never give up on you as long as you keep on paying.
 
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chufeng

Guest
MartialArtist,

I agree...I will be there for the student who shows the desire to learn...for the student who shows up late for class...never goes to extra events...and who won't warn you of their absence...I have little time for...

Also, if someone wants to put forth 120%...I'll always be there.

And as far as the other stuff you commented on...our philosophy says all of that...Avoid confrontation unless you have no choice...

Defining choice is a big question...

Is it your own tail you are protecting? or are you coming to the aid of an innocent by-stander? How can you tell you aren't being set-up???

Good stuff.

:asian:
chufeng
 
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muayThaiPerson

Guest
People often take things for granted. I think they rely on the art more than themselves. Its best to expose students to real life dangers and fighting styles. Your should incorporate in you sessions not only your art. During sparring, you should ask one student out of each pair to fight as if they didnt know the art. And switch it up. Also, do inter-MA competitions
 
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Cliarlaoch

Guest
Thanks for the responses folks, and keep 'em coming, they've all been great so far!

--Cliarlaoch
 
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Astra

Guest
My viewpoint from a student:

Ranks mean absolutely nothing. (which is why we have no belts) And people get too consumed up by it, and should be cooled down by the teacher/etc. "It is the path, not the destination that makes up the journey" to coin a phrase :) Sadly, becoming better in rank is starting to be a bigger problem among martial artists, and it's actually controversial, that the less someone pays attention to rank, the more he learns and advances. Whoops, getting a bit OT here :)

I belive a good instructor/teacher will help students from their own time who wish to study harder, which helps quality a lot. Someone who DOESN'T WANT to learn, can never be taught well or made to learn anything. Just my 0.02 :)
 

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