A few thoughts

[Kosho-Monk]

Prof. Shuras,

Nice to hear from you as always. My students still talk about you coming up and giving a seminar on weapons defense. We all had a great time that day.

Mike is still running a program (not located in my old school) in Peterborough. Last I knew it was still a very small operation, but he does have a few loyal students.

I think that there are lots of student/teachers out there that have no clue how important it is to show the seniors of martial arts, all arts, proper respect. I trained with Kempo, Kenpo, Kajunkenbo, Tai Chi, Jujitsu, Arnis, and many, many other people over the weekend. There wasn't a single person who cared that we were all wearing a different patch on our gi. No one brought up the politics of the arts either. At least not in my presence. We simply got together and trained as one big martial family.

I appreciate the kind words you spoke of me. I believe in training hard and discovering the truth (whatever that might be) for one's self. I also believe in giving credit where credit is due. As you have said many times James Mitose is the reason we in America are fortunate to study the Kempo arts. No one in Hanshi's group condones any criminal activities that Mitose did. However, all of us hold James Mitose as our Great Grandmaster of the Kosho Shorei Ryu.

Hanshi stated on a recent instructional video that James Mitose was either a saint or the devil. And he isn't totally sure which.

I know many of us wish to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. However, that will never happen. What we will find is some truth, some rumor and some lies. Then we will piece together our best guess based on all the information we have.


Take care,
John



To all,

There is an old buddhist story about a man who gets shot with an arrow. And instead of getting the medical attention he needs he goes off to find out about the person who shot him. Well, he dies. He never finds out the truth about the man who shot him and he never becomes enlightened. He just dies.

This is what I feel is happening to many people in the Kempo/Kenpo circles. They keep looking for James Mitose and somewhat forget about that fact that James Mitose is not Kempo. He was simply a carrier of the Kempo arts.

Kempo is here with us today. It is a wonderful study. So while we are still searching for the answers to the late James Mitose, let us not forget about the many teachers who are alive today and have much to teach us.


-John Evans

 

[Doc]

Prof. Shuras,
I think that there are lots of student/teachers out there that have no clue how important it is to show the seniors of martial arts, all arts, proper respect. I trained with Kempo, Kenpo, Kajunkenbo, Tai Chi, Jujitsu, Arnis, and many, many other people over the weekend. There wasn't a single person who cared that we were all wearing a different patch on our gi. No one brought up the politics of the arts either. At least not in my presence. We simply got together and trained as one big martial family.

OK you were there and everyone had a good time. That's really great. Now, what was the "new" secret information that was supposed to rock the kenpo world that Bruce was supposed to present? What ever it was it couldn't have been to startling because no one has mentioned it yet. Do you happen to know what it was? Not that you're responsible or anything. I just ask because you were actuality there.

No one in Hanshi's group condones any criminal activities that Mitose did. However, all of us hold James Mitose as our Great Grandmaster of the Kosho Shorei Ryu.
Hanshi stated on a recent instructional video that James Mitose was either a saint or the devil. And he isn't totally sure which.

Seems like Bruce is confused. What part of Mitose's criminal record did he not understand? It would be considerably difficult in my opinion to pull any "angel" like qualities out of Mitose's history. But that's just me.

I know many of us wish to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. However, that will never happen. What we will find is some truth, some rumor and some lies. Then we will piece together our best guess based on all the information we have.

Believe it or not, some have already found their truth and it may be different from others truth. My personal truth doesn't include Mitose or Judnick so it doesn't matter. I also allow that I am not in their truth but my life and credibility remain unchanged.

There is an old buddhist story about a man who gets shot with an arrow. And instead of getting the medical attention he needs he goes off to find out about the person who shot him. Well, he dies. He never finds out the truth about the man who shot him and he never becomes enlightened. He just dies.

This is what I feel is happening to many people in the Kempo/Kenpo circles. They keep looking for James Mitose and somewhat forget about that fact that James Mitose is not Kempo. He was simply a carrier of the Kempo arts.

On this we agree. Mitose was A carrier of the TERM kenpo, and not the only one. What he did, taught, said, etc has no PHYSICAL OR INTELLECTUAL relationship to the art many study today. He does have a place in martial arts history for sure, but that's all. I take issue with the idea that if Mitose were hit by a truck, we would not be studying today.

In my opinion if you are looking for a more broad and significant influence on the art of Kenpo in lineage, you should look to Sijo Emperado. Chow planted the seed of practicality and Sijo ran with it and assembled a panel of experts to address realistic applications and to share information on a formal basis, and created the first true practical eclectic system of the arts. This could arguably be considered the first true expression of a system of Asian Martial Arts in America. He then went on to in turn support and promot Ed Parker. These men studied and were innovators in their own right, and if Mitose were never born, they would have still been successful martial arts masters. The only thing that MIGHT have changed - is the name of what they called their arts.

Kempo is here with us today. It is a wonderful study. So while we are still searching for the answers to the late James Mitose, ...

Some find that important to bolster their own credibility. My creds come from the space above my shoes, not from my teacher even though his name was Ed Parker. Here's a flash. The majority of most teachers black belts aren't that good, and that includes Ed Parker.

... let us not forget about the many teachers who are alive today and have much to teach us.

On that we can definitely agree sir.

 

[Karazenpo]

To Kosho Monk: John, you know what I think of you and we've had many personal heated debates on this Mitose thing but I have to be honest with you, Doc has made some great points and I agree with them all. however, I do understand that you are loyal and if you feel it is not your place to tell us what went on and what 'secrets' were revealed, well, like I said, I respect that, HOWEVER, if the fact is, what Doc implies (and Doc I know I'm taking the liberty of stating what I think you feel so if I'm wrong I apologize) that it was all a sham and a lot of B.S. that was fed to us then all I have to say is: "What the F..k!" Fair enough?

 

[Ceicei]

Here's a flash. The majority of most teachers black belts aren't that good, and that includes Ed Parker.

Sir,
What is your definition of "good"? How do you recognize what is and what isn't?

:asian: Respectfully,

- Ceicei

 

[Doc]

To Kosho Monk: John, you know what I think of you and we've had many personal heated debates on this Mitose thing but I have to be honest with you, Doc has made some great points and I agree with them all. however, I do understand that you are loyal and if you feel it is not your place to tell us what went on and what 'secrets' were revealed, well, like I said, I respect that, HOWEVER, if the fact is, what Doc implies (and Doc I know I'm taking the liberty of stating what I think you feel so if I'm wrong I apologize) that it was all a sham and a lot of B.S. that was fed to us then all I have to say is: "What the F..k!" Fair enough?

Hey Joe, you know you can speak for me anytime. They've been pulling our collective chains like always trying to lure us to some "gathering" (at a discount) to tell us nothing new. Not that it matters.

 

[Doc]

Sir,
What is your definition of "good"? How do you recognize what is and what isn't?

:asian: Respectfully,

- Ceicei

The term is subjective based on the knowledge and standards of the person making the statement. Its like porno. I may not exactly be able to describe it but I know crap when I see it. What you might call good I'd pick apart, but the best standard is - does it really work?

 

[Kosho-Monk]

Doc,

Call Hanshi Juchnik if you have some questions about his organization or the things that happen within it. It is not my place to speak for him.

It is my belief that Mitose passed along knowledge to Juchnik that he is passing along to me. I am perfectly happy with that being my truth. I have trained with many masters over the years of several different styles. And I can honestly say, in my opinion, that not one of these masters has the level of understanding that Bruce Juchnik has when it comes to martial movement.

I understand that many of us will disagree on this point. But that doesn't matter to me. I have found a great teacher and I intend to stay with him.


-John Evans



Ps. Doc, where is your school located? It would be nice to be able to visit you at some point in the future.

 

[Karazenpo]

Hey Joe, you know you can speak for me anytime. They've been pulling our collective chains like always trying to lure us to some "gathering" (at a discount) to tell us nothing new. Not that it matters.

Thanks, Doc. You're the man!

 

[GAB]

Hi All,

This is to let you know that I did not say, that Hanshi was going to give up all the secrets, at the gathering, so you would go to the gathering.

That is pretty sad that you are falling into Doc's trap, Joe. Divide and conquer, is this the new one now?

You are real close to getting some facts and documentation. Ted has been given permission by Al Tracy, he gives info and docs and you just go on about it, like it is forged and untruths.

If you go to Al Tracy's site, he now has some new information also.

Are we on a time line to see who writes the first book ? Lets see will it be Sijo, Mike, M. C. , John, Joe, or Tom, Dick, and Harry?

I think I will put all the above names in a hat and pull out the one that will be first, makes about as much sense as what is going on now.

Take care,
Regards, Gary

 

[Kosho-Monk]

To Kosho Monk: John, you know what I think of you and we've had many personal heated debates on this Mitose thing but I have to be honest with you, Doc has made some great points and I agree with them all. however, I do understand that you are loyal and if you feel it is not your place to tell us what went on and what 'secrets' were revealed, well, like I said, I respect that, HOWEVER, if the fact is, what Doc implies (and Doc I know I'm taking the liberty of stating what I think you feel so if I'm wrong I apologize) that it was all a sham and a lot of B.S. that was fed to us then all I have to say is: "What the F..k!" Fair enough?

Joe,

I have always appreciated our debates and you as a person. I don't agree with all of what Doc said. And I don't really think his points are all that great. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

What came out openly at the Gathering is most likely of no interest to most of you. There are some things that I have been told that certainly shed light on some things. It is not for me to bring this out as I am not the one with the documentation, etc. to prove anything I state.

With that said, I have to wonder what kind of motivation Hanshi has to rush to get things out to anyone anyway. He is extrememly secure with himself and his abilities. At least it seems that way to me. His reputation is built through his own work and not resting on the outcome James Mitose's past.

It's too bad that more people, who like to debate Mitose & Kosho, don't attend these events. I'm not speaking for Hanshi here, but I'd bet he would not charge a fee to have someone like Doc or yourself attend the Gathering. Perhaps next spring you'll be able to attend the Kosho Camp in Lake George, NY. Then you could sit down with Hanshi Juchnik and ask some straight questions.

I think that most everyone who attended the Gathering this year were extremely happy with the turnout and outcome of the event. I know I was. I was very happy to train with teachers like Grandmaster George Elmer, an Ed Parker black belt. Very friendly and very skillful. I don't know what his impression of Bruce Juchnik was before the event, but I saw them walking around like two old buddies several times.

So I'll let Hanshi speak out when he's ready. Everyone will just have to contact him directly if you wish to know more. I'm going back to the dojo to train so more!

Take care,

John

 

[Karazenpo]

Joe,

I have always appreciated our debates and you as a person. I don't agree with all of what Doc said. And I don't really think his points are all that great. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

What came out openly at the Gathering is most likely of no interest to most of you. There are some things that I have been told that certainly shed light on some things. It is not for me to bring this out as I am not the one with the documentation, etc. to prove anything I state.

With that said, I have to wonder what kind of motivation Hanshi has to rush to get things out to anyone anyway. He is extrememly secure with himself and his abilities. At least it seems that way to me. His reputation is built through his own work and not resting on the outcome James Mitose's past.

It's too bad that more people, who like to debate Mitose & Kosho, don't attend these events. I'm not speaking for Hanshi here, but I'd bet he would not charge a fee to have someone like Doc or yourself attend the Gathering. Perhaps next spring you'll be able to attend the Kosho Camp in Lake George, NY. Then you could sit down with Hanshi Juchnik and ask some straight questions.

I think that most everyone who attended the Gathering this year were extremely happy with the turnout and outcome of the event. I know I was. I was very happy to train with teachers like Grandmaster George Elmer, an Ed Parker black belt. Very friendly and very skillful. I don't know what his impression of Bruce Juchnik was before the event, but I saw them walking around like two old buddies several times.

So I'll let Hanshi speak out when he's ready. Everyone will just have to contact him directly if you wish to know more. I'm going back to the dojo to train so more!

Take care,

John

C'ome on Gary, falling into Doc's trap? Okay, let me be blunt. Let's cut to the chase, no let's cut the sh.t and all this secret squirrel crap. You put us on hold until after the "Gathering" and so far all we got is a lot B.S., rhetoric and spin. Very simple questions: Did Mitose train in Japan? Is Mitose the 21st decendant of his family art of Kosho? and what about Mitose's Okinawan link to Kenpo? Now, is that so hard? Any other system in the world today can answer simple questions like this in regards to their history and lineage! If no one in Kosho can answer these SIMPLE questions let's just close out this topic and move in. This is getting ridiculous. You would think we are asking for the formular for the Neutron bomb!!!

 

[Doc]

Doc,
Call Hanshi Juchnik if you have some questions about his organization or the things that happen within it. It is not my place to speak for him.

It is my belief that Mitose passed along knowledge to Juchnik that he is passing along to me. I am perfectly happy with that being my truth. I have trained with many masters over the years of several different styles. And I can honestly say, in my opinion, that not one of these masters has the level of understanding that Bruce Juchnik has when it comes to martial movement.

I understand that many of us will disagree on this point. But that doesn't matter to me. I have found a great teacher and I intend to stay with him.

Please don't misunderstand me Mr. Evans. I have no idea of what Bruce does or doesn't do. Clearly there are those like yourself that are happy and satisfied with him and his organization, and I really have no problem with that. I think it's great. More power to you guys, and I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm or spoil your experiences. If you believe that Mitose had significant knowledge and passed it along to Bruce through prison visitations, I'm ok with that.

Just stop trying to convince me (and others) because history, logic, common sense, and my own knowledge and experiences tell me its a rather large and obvious crock of a "con"coction that smells no matter how well it is cooked and seasoned over time.

My problem is the glorification of a person who was, by all accounts, a really despicable human being who lied, cheated, coned, and preyed upon the weak and elderly. Not exactly the image I have of a pillar in the martial Arts community, and it is totally unnecessary to attempt to bathe him the light of martial arts legitimacy.

My problem is the "games" that Bruce, Al Tracy and others have been playing over the years, and have ramped up since the passing of Ed Parker Sr. The constant bombardment with "new & improved" information to convince people that Mitose's self created history and claims of a centuries old lineage handed to him are true.

The constant "we've found the proof" exclamations that are like "pop up" ads every time you enter into one of these discussions, "and if you come to this meeting or call this guy, or go to his site, you'll see how correct we are." And, like always, It fades away, people start talking about something else, and the old "bait and switch" is in full effect until the next time. You know if this "information" really existed, it wouldn't take very much to convince one of the major martial arts publication to do a story on this revelation on Mitose.

Debating the history and legitimacy of Mitose to the extent that prevails among those who claim his lineage is unnecessary. If you feel Bruce is a legitimate martial artist, than the rest doesn't matter. History good or bad doesn't teach you or correct your technique. If you feel Mitose is significant in your martial arts history that's fine and doesn't bother me. I don't need to call the Mahatma so I can be "convinced" because I was there.

I have many students who never met my teacher, and although they hear the things I have to say about him as a man and as a person, it is not his skill knowledge or character that they rely on, and my teacher or even his teacher is really irrelevant to them. I walk on the floor with no history and Ed Parker Sr. has not taught one of my classes since his passing. They watch me perform, teach, lecture, and correct what they do and look into my eyes and believe in me. They look at the teachers I have taught and produced and are either impressed or not. We do not have a "history class" beyond Ed Parker Sr. and the only reason we go back that far is because he lives within me and my students who were with me when he was alive.

I take issue with the incessant and anal need to convert and convince everyone outside of the concocted Mitose lineage. It's being bombarded with this cult-like behavior and the incessant need to convince the rest of the world that the emperor really does have on clothes, while we stare at his naked derrière. The legitimacy of what Bruce or others do or do not do is not served by this rabid compulsion to make "believers" out of the rest of us. I think most are like me. We don't care what you claim, so please stop trying to convince us. In addition to this, somehow whenever the promotion of Mitose's greatness is raised, it always leads somehow to others like Ed Parker Sr. being not "as legitimate" because of Mitose detractors, and Parker's deviation from the "true lineage." Chow wasn't the man, But Mitose was. Parker never learned the true system, but the Tracy's did, etc. Please.

Why is it you guys never talk techniques, or the execution of basics, or something else? Why is history the only topic that prevails in these discussions. I suspect whatever it is you do will work or not, not because of Mitose but because you have either learned something worthwhile - or not. But the Mitose issue was dead for me before he was dead himself. Anyone who believes they need to wrap themselves in his lineage for legitimacy has a problem. My advice is just be legit yourself, and let history take care of itself.

I'm not knocking you Mr. Evans, but Bruce needs to just click his heels 3 times and let the rest of us be "stupid" in Oz. You see if he really wanted us to know the "truth," he could easily communicate himself in many ways, and stop withholding the "truth" for release at some special time and place that just happens to charge a fee to be there. The news was delivered last weekend and now it's Thursday. Do you know where your shihan is?

No offense but, I don't hate the players, I hate the games.

 

[Karazenpo]

Please don't misunderstand me Mr. Evans. I have no idea of what Bruce does or doesn't do. Clearly there are those like yourself that are happy and satisfied with him and his organization, and I really have no problem with that. I think it's great. More power to you guys, and I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm or spoil your experiences. If you believe that Mitose had significant knowledge and passed it along to Bruce through prison visitations, I'm ok with that.

Just stop trying to convince me (and others) because history, logic, common sense, and my own knowledge and experiences tell me its a rather large and obvious crock of a "con"coction that smells no matter how well it is cooked and seasoned over time.

My problem is the glorification of a person who was, by all accounts, a really despicable human being who lied, cheated, coned, and preyed upon the weak and elderly. Not exactly the image I have of a pillar in the martial Arts community, and it is totally unnecessary to attempt to bathe him the light of martial arts legitimacy.

My problem is the "games" that Bruce, Al Tracy and others have been playing over the years, and have ramped up since the passing of Ed Parker Sr. The constant bombardment with "new & improved" information to convince people that Mitose's self created history and claims of a centuries old lineage handed to him are true.

The constant "we've found the proof" exclamations that are like "pop up" ads every time you enter into one of these discussions, "and if you come to this meeting or call this guy, or go to his site, you'll see how correct we are." And, like always, It fades away, people start talking about something else, and the old "bait and switch" is in full effect until the next time. You know if this "information" really existed, it wouldn't take very much to convince one of the major martial arts publication to do a story on this revelation on Mitose.

Debating the history and legitimacy of Mitose to the extent that prevails among those who claim his lineage is unnecessary. If you feel Bruce is a legitimate martial artist, than the rest doesn't matter. History good or bad doesn't teach you or correct your technique. If you feel Mitose is significant in your martial arts history that's fine and doesn't bother me. I don't need to call the Mahatma so I can be "convinced" because I was there.

I have many students who never met my teacher, and although they hear the things I have to say about him as a man and as a person, it is not his skill knowledge or character that they rely on, and my teacher or even his teacher is really irrelevant to them. I walk on the floor with no history and Ed Parker Sr. has not taught one of my classes since his passing. They watch me perform, teach, lecture, and correct what they do and look into my eyes and believe in me. They look at the teachers I have taught and produced and are either impressed or not. We do not have a "history class" beyond Ed Parker Sr. and the only reason we go back that far is because he lives within me and my students who were with me when he was alive.

I take issue with the incessant and anal need to convert and convince everyone outside of the concocted Mitose lineage. It's being bombarded with this cult-like behavior and the incessant need to convince the rest of the world that the emperor really does have on clothes, while we stare at his naked derrière. The legitimacy of what Bruce or others do or do not do is not served by this rabid compulsion to make "believers" out of the rest of us. I think most are like me. We don't care what you claim, so please stop trying to convince us. In addition to this, somehow whenever the promotion of Mitose's greatness is raised, it always leads somehow to others like Ed Parker Sr. being not "as legitimate" because of Mitose detractors, and Parker's deviation from the "true lineage." Chow wasn't the man, But Mitose was. Parker never learned the true system, but the Tracy's did, etc. Please.

Why is it you guys never talk techniques, or the execution of basics, or something else? Why is history the only topic that prevails in these discussions. I suspect whatever it is you do will work or not, not because of Mitose but because you have either learned something worthwhile - or not. But the Mitose issue was dead for me before he was dead himself. Anyone who believes they need to wrap themselves in his lineage for legitimacy has a problem. My advice is just be legit yourself, and let history take care of itself.

I'm not knocking you Mr. Evans, but Bruce needs to just click his heels 3 times and let the rest of us be "stupid" in Oz. You see if he really wanted us to know the "truth," he could easily communicate himself in many ways, and stop withholding the "truth" for release at some special time and place that just happens to charge a fee to be there. The news was delivered last weekend and now it's Thursday. Do you know where your shihan is?

No offense but, I don't hate the players, I hate the games.

Doc says:
No offense but, I don't hate the players, I hate the games.

John and others, Sorry, but this last statement by Doc says it all. Sensei Evans, John, I hope we are still friends after this but how can anyone disagree with Doc's last post? Now, before you say that I fell into Doc's trap as Gary did ( Gary, I still love you, LOL) and agree with everything he says, please let me say this: Doc and I agree with almost all of our posts but not everything. We still have a difference of opinion on lineage in the martial arts and specifically American Kenpo lineage and Ed Parker for despite of the inconsistincies of Mitose's background I still feel he holds an integral part of the Parker lineage. Doc disagrees, my point being I respect that as Doc differs with me but respects my opinion. So we're not patronizing each other but we agree to disagree. No one is falling into anyone's trap. It is our opiinion and we stand by it, right Doc?

 

[GAB]

Joe,
I have said, ask the 22nd descendent numerous times, you just fail to grasp the meaning. As far as docs and other information it will be given just like Ted gave his and then it will be claimed to be forged.

Give me a break Joe, go play good cop, bad cop with some one who is dump enough to be fooled.

Regrets, Gary

 

[GAB]

Hi Doc,
As far as cult like behavior the only thing I have heard of in the past 50 years as being a cult was the LDS church, and the Kenpo that came out of that era.

Look in some of the older Encyclopedias, and then of course there is always Will Tracy's memories, you know the guy who had Ed Parkers crest copywrited and then Ed had to go look for something else, remember that, oh senior one.

There were a lot of funny things happening in that part of the kenpo ring, would you like to discuss them also?

Ed Parker saw that Robert Trias was making money putting on get togethers,
so he did it, was that wrong no thats business, so when Ed came over to Robert Trias and wanted to join the organization, Robert told him he would have to come in under Bruce, well we all know how well that went over. Does that stir any memories sir?

Ed Parker died in 1990 the Mitose cult (your words Doc) Had been going on for 13 years before Ed Passed, that is a lot of water under abridge, can you do some better information then after he died ...Please....

You know Doc if you would really look at the picture, it was Parkers own Black belts that put the boots to him, just like he did to them. Over the years it was a constant battle with one or the other.

I see that happening in the Kai, happens in all the organizations as far as I have observed, Kenpo, Kaji, Aikido, JKD, FMA, on and on. Lets get some new news or let if go. Your are just blowing smoke, and you and I both know it.

Regards, Gary

 

[kelly keltner]

OK. Let me get this straight. Hanshi sucked in the 70's. So what? That doesn't mean anything to me. I sucked in the 70's too. But I will say that I have seen footage of Hanshi from the late 70's early 80's and he looked pretty good back then. He certainly didn't move then like he does now. He's a student first, and as such, he is constantly improving.

The worse thing that happens to many teachers is that they stop learning. So many teachers think they know it all and become content with themselves. Ego and pride kick in and they not only stop progressing, they actually start getting worse.

I trained with Hanshi Juchnik (and many other great masters) over the weekend at the Gathering. It was an event that truly humbles the best practitioners. The one thing that Hanshi Juchnik continues to speak on is unity between all the martial groups. He is not only dedicated to the art of Kosho, but to all martial arts.

Anyone who does not attend these events and see for themselves all the great work that Bruce Juchnik has done for the entire martial arts community needs to close their mouths and keep their fingers off the keyboards. You do not know the truth about this man.

Hanshi continually speaks out to the students and reminds them to respect all masters of all martial systems. And some of these same masters that Hanshi speaks out for are posting disrespectful statements about him on sites like this one.

So all of you who continue to bad-mouth my teacher, Hanshi Bruce Juchnik, please continue if you wish. You will not hear Hanshi Juchnik bad mouth any of you. He is above that.

I have taken the time to know Bruce Juchnik and to admire all of the great work he has done. There is no doubt within my heart and soul that he is on the true path of martial enlightement.

I bow humbly to my teacher with gratitude for having the endurance to put up with so much negativity.


-John Evans

Yeah John Doc said hanshi sucked in the seventies .If you read his response to me carefully at one point he asked for corroboration of hanshi being a good kenpoman before he met Mitose. My anwer to that is that Doc needs to talk to his Rick Alemeny and Eugene Sedeno. They are supposed to be Doc's friends and they know Bruce as well.

Sorry I missed the gathering this year. I hear from Hanshi it was very good.

 

[Doc]

Yeah John Doc said hanshi sucked in the seventies .If you read his response to me carefully at one point he asked for corroboration of hanshi being a good kenpoman before he met Mitose. My anwer to that is that Doc needs to talk to his Rick Alemeny and Eugene Sedeno. They are supposed to be Doc's friends and they know Bruce as well.

Sorry I missed the gathering this year. I hear from Hanshi it was very good.

Look Gary the question was rhetorical. What makes you think I care what Bruce looked like in the seventies? That question too, was rhetorical.

 

[Doc]

Doc says:
No offense but, I don't hate the players, I hate the games.

John and others, Sorry, but this last statement by Doc says it all. Sensei Evans, John, I hope we are still friends after this but how can anyone disagree with Doc's last post? Now, before you say that I fell into Doc's trap as Gary did ( Gary, I still love you, LOL) and agree with everything he says, please let me say this: Doc and I agree with almost all of our posts but not everything. We still have a difference of opinion on lineage in the martial arts and specifically American Kenpo lineage and Ed Parker for despite of the inconsistincies of Mitose's background I still feel he holds an integral part of the Parker lineage. Doc disagrees, my point being I respect that as Doc differs with me but respects my opinion. So we're not patronizing each other but we agree to disagree. No one is falling into anyone's trap. It is our opiinion and we stand by it, right Doc?

Roger that! 11 Robert Clear 10-8

 

[Kosho-Monk]

Just stop trying to convince me (and others) because history, logic, common sense, and my own knowledge and experiences tell me its a rather large and obvious crock of a "con"coction that smells no matter how well it is cooked and seasoned over time.

Doc,

I am not concerned with convincing anyone about anything. We both hold onto our own truths. I still believe we should focus our energy into learning from the masters of today.

My teacher, Bruce Juchnik, is a great practitioner - one of the best in my opinion. His knowledge of various art forms is amazing... to me anyway.

I'd still like to know where your school is so that I might be able to visit you sometime in the future. All I know you as is "Doc", but I have to imagine that you have a real name.

I would also like to say that I enjoy discussing things like this. I hold no bad feelings towards anyone... even if you're wrong!!

(just kidding!)

Take care, sir. I truly enjoyed the debate. <bow>



-John Evans

 

[Kosho-Monk]

Sensei Evans, John, I hope we are still friends after this...?

Prof. Shuras (Joe),

Of course we're still friends. This kind of stuff doesn't bother me at all. I dont' have to have my friends agree with everything I do. That would be quite boring.

I believe Mitose had something great to teach, and did teach it, to Bruce Juchnik. And I believe that Bruce Juchnik is passing that knowledge (and knowledge of his own) along to me. And I am passing Mitose's, Juchnik's and my own knowledge onto my students. And that cycle will continue for as long as students from my personal lineage keep it going.

I agree with everyone who basically stated that we have to stand on our own reputation. We can't rely on our teacher's reputation, especially if it wasn't all that good. (but that doesn't mean that person wasn't skilled in martial arts, just because he/she was not a good person) I let my students and peers judge me for me. And I'm never to proud to say I am wrong, if I am.

On a side note I have been invited to teach a 3-hour workshop at the Shaolin Kempo Training Center in Orange, MA on Nov. 6th. If you're in the area it would be nice to see you again.

Take care.


-John