A Bad Trip for Democrats

Big Don

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[h=1]A Bad Trip for Democrats[/h] [h=6]By ED GOGEK[/h] [h=6]Published: November 7, 2012 NYTIMES EXCERPT:[/h]TUESDAY’S election was a victory for the marijuana lobby: Colorado and Washington State voted to legalize recreational use, while Massachusetts will now allow doctors to recommend it as medicine.

It’s a movement around which many Democrats have coalesced. In Colorado, legalization was part of the state party’s platform. And last year, in Montana, Republicans voted to overturn the state’s medical marijuana law, but the Democratic governor saved it with a veto.
But Democrats should think twice about becoming the party of pot. I’m a lifelong partisan Democrat, but I’ve also spent 25 years as a doctor treating drug abusers, and I know their games. They’re excellent con artists.
Take, for example, medical marijuana laws. They were sold to more than a dozen states with promises that they’re only for serious illnesses like cancer.
But that’s not how they work in practice. Almost all marijuana cardholders claim they need it for various kinds of pain, but pain is easy to fake and almost impossible to disprove. In Oregon and Colorado, 94 percent of cardholders get their pot for pain. In Arizona, it’s 90 percent. Serious illnesses barely register.
It’s possible that they all really do need pot to help them. But consider this: pain patients are mostly female, whereas a recent National Survey on Drug Use and Health found that adult cannabis abusers were 74 percent male.
So which one do marijuana patients resemble? Though only two states release data on gender, a vast majority of medical-marijuana cardholders are male. In Arizona, it’s 73 percent, and in Colorado, it’s 68 percent. The best explanation for such skewed numbers is that most medical marijuana recipients are drug abusers who are either faking or exaggerating their problems.
No one should support this subterfuge, but especially not Democrats. It turns us into hypocrites.

<<<SNIP>>> Democrats know we need government regulation to protect the public from unhealthy products. But the marijuana lobby wants us to distrust two centerpieces of the regulatory state, the Food and Drug Administration and the Drug Enforcement Administration. The whole purpose of medical marijuana laws is to evade the regulatory power of these agencies. We’re the political party that got the F.D.A. to regulate tobacco. How can we now say it shouldn’t regulate pot?
Legalization also runs counter to the Democrats’ commitment to education. States with medical marijuana laws have always had much higher rates of teenage marijuana use, but now the effect is nationwide. Since 2008, teenage use has increased 40 percent, and heavy use (at least 20 times a month) is up 80 percent.
Blame the drive to legalize pot. It sends the message that weed is harmless, even though research shows that teenagers who use it regularly do worse in school, are twice as likely to drop out and earn less as adults. Teenage use has been shown to permanently lower I.Q.
No other drug, not even alcohol, affects academic performance like marijuana. How can we make education a focus, and then support laws that will blunt the next generation’s ability to compete? END EXCERPT
 

Touch Of Death

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A Bad Trip for Democrats

By ED GOGEK

Published: November 7, 2012 NYTIMES EXCERPT:

TUESDAY&#8217;S election was a victory for the marijuana lobby: Colorado and Washington State voted to legalize recreational use, while Massachusetts will now allow doctors to recommend it as medicine.

It&#8217;s a movement around which many Democrats have coalesced. In Colorado, legalization was part of the state party&#8217;s platform. And last year, in Montana, Republicans voted to overturn the state&#8217;s medical marijuana law, but the Democratic governor saved it with a veto.
But Democrats should think twice about becoming the party of pot. I&#8217;m a lifelong partisan Democrat, but I&#8217;ve also spent 25 years as a doctor treating drug abusers, and I know their games. They&#8217;re excellent con artists.
Take, for example, medical marijuana laws. They were sold to more than a dozen states with promises that they&#8217;re only for serious illnesses like cancer.
But that&#8217;s not how they work in practice. Almost all marijuana cardholders claim they need it for various kinds of pain, but pain is easy to fake and almost impossible to disprove. In Oregon and Colorado, 94 percent of cardholders get their pot for pain. In Arizona, it&#8217;s 90 percent. Serious illnesses barely register.
It&#8217;s possible that they all really do need pot to help them. But consider this: pain patients are mostly female, whereas a recent National Survey on Drug Use and Health found that adult cannabis abusers were 74 percent male.
So which one do marijuana patients resemble? Though only two states release data on gender, a vast majority of medical-marijuana cardholders are male. In Arizona, it&#8217;s 73 percent, and in Colorado, it&#8217;s 68 percent. The best explanation for such skewed numbers is that most medical marijuana recipients are drug abusers who are either faking or exaggerating their problems.
No one should support this subterfuge, but especially not Democrats. It turns us into hypocrites.

<<<SNIP>>> Democrats know we need government regulation to protect the public from unhealthy products. But the marijuana lobby wants us to distrust two centerpieces of the regulatory state, the Food and Drug Administration and the Drug Enforcement Administration. The whole purpose of medical marijuana laws is to evade the regulatory power of these agencies. We&#8217;re the political party that got the F.D.A. to regulate tobacco. How can we now say it shouldn&#8217;t regulate pot?
Legalization also runs counter to the Democrats&#8217; commitment to education. States with medical marijuana laws have always had much higher rates of teenage marijuana use, but now the effect is nationwide. Since 2008, teenage use has increased 40 percent, and heavy use (at least 20 times a month) is up 80 percent.
Blame the drive to legalize pot. It sends the message that weed is harmless, even though research shows that teenagers who use it regularly do worse in school, are twice as likely to drop out and earn less as adults. Teenage use has been shown to permanently lower I.Q.
No other drug, not even alcohol, affects academic performance like marijuana. How can we make education a focus, and then support laws that will blunt the next generation&#8217;s ability to compete? END EXCERPT
I was unaware they planned to dispense it to school children. :)
 

Cryozombie

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I was unaware they planned to dispense it to school children. :)

Do you have to? I mean, it's Illegal to sell Cigarettes to minors, so we NEVER see kids smoking right? :)

I'm for the legalization and taxation of the product, especially if the tax revenue can be used to reduce the need for tax money on other levels. Oh crap! I know, we should licence Planned parenthood to sell it. Tax the sale, but then use that Tax money exclusively to fund planned parenthood, and therefor eliminate the need to fund planned parenthood with other taxes... allowing it to self-fund.

Damn I am smart. And yes, that's a serious idea that just came to me as I was typing this up.
 

WC_lun

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Using illegal pot farms as some sort of standard about cause and effect is not really valid. Anytime you have a black market and bootleggers, you are going to have increased crime. This is actually one of the arguements to legalize it.

Efforts to legalize pot without having it fall under the umbrella of the FDA is misguided in my opinion. Marijuana IS a drug, and as a drug should fall under the FDA. The guidelines for medical marijuana for pain should be stringent, as they are for other pain meds, which are easily abused. Those that are pushing to legalize marijuana must realise that means regulating marijuana as well...and taxing the hell out of it if approved for abusive use, like cigarettes and alcohol. Once legaized, you may buy and use it without the direct repurcussion of jail, but the abuse of pot will still have consequences that may not involve our legal system.
 

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I gotta tell you Don, if I could get ahold of marijuana without the high that would help pain, I'd be all for it. Yeah, I know lots and lots of people abuse the medical marijuana thing, but there are real people it is also helping. We need to be careful about hurting those helped by marijuana to punish those that just want to abuse it.
 

Cryozombie

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I gotta tell you Don, if I could get ahold of marijuana without the high that would help pain, I'd be all for it. Yeah, I know lots and lots of people abuse the medical marijuana thing, but there are real people it is also helping. We need to be careful about hurting those helped by marijuana to punish those that just want to abuse it.

Wait... wait... Lemme see if this works:

Yeah, I know lots and lots of people abuse the FIREARM thing, but there are real people it is also helping. We need to be careful about hurting those helped by FIREARMS to punish those that just want to abuse THEM.

Yeah... It sounds A LOT like the same argument I make for guns.
 

Carol

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I think the problems surrounding marijuana use in teens is deeper than the drive to legalize pot. From what I have been hearing, another big factor is stricter regulations surrounding alcolhol (tougher fines for stores that all for underage for buyers, etc) have worked at keeping alcohol away from young people, and have made alcohol harder to get than pot in many cases. All the students of Iwannaget High find a way to do so regardless.

On Friday night, my band played at a Veterans Day concert at a local VFW. We played a set, and the rest of the night was an open jam where any musician in the area could join us. Gigging musicians often carry lists of songs in whats called a "fake book" -- usually bare bones referenes to songs, sometimes nothing more than lyrics and a few scrawled letters for chord changes -- written so a player can fake their way through a song they haven't played before and do a passable job.

We had a couple older guys join us on guitar, and they wanted to play a several songs that were just not from my time. Sloop John B, Wash My Hands With Muddy Water...great stuff but also stuff I never came close to playing. I stuck close to a guitar player, watching his hands as he changed chords and coming up with a bass line on the fly. Good times :D

At any time, I could have gone to the bar and gotten a drink. For free (my only payment for the night...LOL) I had ZERO temptation to do so. Keeping up with these guest musicians took so much focus, that I did not want to do anything to take me off my game. This same focus, and desire to make my music as good as it can be is what kept me away from booze, drugs, and general stupidity as a teen. But I wouldn't BE a musician if it wasnt for my parents, and when I became a teen, music became a distinct identity that was all mine to enjoy. It was outside all the stuff I HAD to do and became something I wanted to do. I see other young people that have developed a similar identity for themselves with martial arts, sports, or other activities.

Involved parents are the most critical factor for success, and unfortunately I don't think anyone knows how to fix that.
 

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Well, you guys know what my opinion is on drug legalization. Despite my recent vote for Gary Johnson, it is one plank of the Libertarian Party I remain deeply opposed to, and I will never change my opinion on drugs, drug dealers, and the people who use dope. If the people have spoken, I will respect that, but I'll never agree with it. Not one of the arguments has ever persuaded me in the slightest to change my mind.
 

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I think the problems surrounding marijuana use in teens is deeper than the drive to legalize pot. From what I have been hearing, another big factor is stricter regulations surrounding alcolhol (tougher fines for stores that all for underage for buyers, etc) have worked at keeping alcohol away from young people, and have made alcohol harder to get than pot in many cases. All the students of Iwannaget High find a way to do so regardless.

But that's because of prohibition. If it were legal the black market for it would largely disappear (who sells alcohol out of their locker in high school? cigarettes?) and so it would no longer be the case that a network of people selling it illegally would exist at all. Legalization for adults will dry up the main source of it for kids. When you can make a lot of money selling alcohol/cigarettes/marijuana to adults legally, why risk selling it on street corners and in high schools illegally?
 

arnisador

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Well, you guys know what my opinion is on drug legalization. Despite my recent vote for Gary Johnson, it is one plank of the Libertarian Party I remain deeply opposed to, and I will never change my opinion on drugs, drug dealers, and the people who use dope. If the people have spoken, I will respect that, but I'll never agree with it. Not one of the arguments has ever persuaded me in the slightest to change my mind.

Pragmatically, we learned with alcohol and continue to see with drugs that prohibition just doesn't work. I think it's a personal freedom issue where weed is concerned and a public health concern where, say, heroin is concerned, but surely what we're doing now isn't being successful.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Pragmatically, we learned with alcohol and continue to see with drugs that prohibition just doesn't work. I think it's a personal freedom issue where weed is concerned and a public health concern where, say, heroin is concerned, but surely what we're doing now isn't being successful.

Do not care. I say put drug dealers to death after a summary trial. I see drug dealers as a worse threat than Al Qaida.
 

geezer

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Do not care. I say put drug dealers to death after a summary trial. I see drug dealers as a worse threat than Al Qaida.

Well, if you can't put them all to death, why not just put them out of business?

Heck, legalize the stuff, restrict advertizing, and tax the hell out of it. Allowing personal freedom of choice should suit Libertarians. Use the taxes to suport education, social programs and anti-drug campaings. That should make Dems happy.
And as any good Republican will tell you, taxes put people out of business. So pot pushers go extinct. Sounds good to me.

BTW ...I wonder why Nevada didn't jump on the bandwagon to legalize weed? Seems a natural fit for Vegas.
 

Carol

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Well, if you can't put them all to death, why not just put them out of business?

Heck, legalize the stuff, restrict advertizing, and tax the hell out of it. Allowing personal freedom of choice should suit Libertarians. Use the taxes to suport education, social programs and anti-drug campaings. That should make Dems happy.
And as any good Republican will tell you, taxes put people out of business. So pot pushers go extinct. Sounds good to me.

BTW ...I wonder why Nevada didn't jump on the bandwagon to legalize weed? Seems a natural fit for Vegas.

Probably for the same reason the NH state house didn't approve a bill medical MJ. It's not yet an issue that motivates large numbers of people to support the measure, across the board.
 
OP
Big Don

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Well, if you can't put them all to death, why not just put them out of business?

Heck, legalize the stuff, restrict advertizing, and tax the hell out of it. Allowing personal freedom of choice should suit Libertarians. Use the taxes to suport education, social programs and anti-drug campaings. That should make Dems happy.
And as any good Republican will tell you, taxes put people out of business. So pot pushers go extinct. Sounds good to me.

BTW ...I wonder why Nevada didn't jump on the bandwagon to legalize weed? Seems a natural fit for Vegas.

The Lottery was sold to CA Voters that way a while back. The lottery started, the politicians in Sacramento deducted the amount of lottery money from school appropriations. Ergo, the schools didn't get any "Extra" money.
 

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