67 Year Old Pastor Beaten and Tasered by Security Guards

[Archangel M]

Agreed. It deifinitely looked to me like repeated kicks were being thrown by multiple assailants against someone prostrate on the ground. Inexcusable.

What video are you guys looking at?

 

[MJS]

What video are you guys looking at?

Click on the link that was posted here.

 

[jks9199]

A few things...

Hospital security is often armed or may have Tasers or other tools because there's a lot of problems at hospitals. Not only do you have lots of drugs and valuable stuff there, you get some pretty upset people.

Regarding this incident... I don't know. Let me put a little different spin on the exact same words given:

Guard is walking down the hall, with the assigned duty of keeping people from loitering in the hall. Someone steps out, and when the guard tells him to either go back or leave, he asks "Are you having a good day?", which could seem kind of sarcastic. ("Are you having a good day, officer", as the cop give you a ticket...) Especially with the "Then you oughta tell your face."

I don't know what led to a 2-guard escort from the building. I can't see much useful in the video; there are a lot guards, a lot of milling around, but anything important happens behind the pillars. Which does make me somewhat curious; I'm confident that the guards know the areas covered by the cameras, and that's a kind of strange place to deal with the guy... But I don't know what happened. It didn't look like he got hit with a Taser; I suspect it was some other electronic stun gun.

It's not good. But it's going to come down to who do you believe. The video isn't damning - or saving. Just because you've got a sympathetic accuser with questionable circumstances, it doesn't mean they're innocent of wrong, or that the accused were wrong.

 

[MA-Caver]

A few things...

Hospital security is often armed or may have Tasers or other tools because there's a lot of problems at hospitals. Not only do you have lots of drugs and valuable stuff there, you get some pretty upset people.

Regarding this incident... I don't know. Let me put a little different spin on the exact same words given:

Guard is walking down the hall, with the assigned duty of keeping people from loitering in the hall. Someone steps out, and when the guard tells him to either go back or leave, he asks "Are you having a good day?", which could seem kind of sarcastic. ("Are you having a good day, officer", as the cop give you a ticket...) Especially with the "Then you oughta tell your face."

I don't know what led to a 2-guard escort from the building. I can't see much useful in the video; there are a lot guards, a lot of milling around, but anything important happens behind the pillars. Which does make me somewhat curious; I'm confident that the guards know the areas covered by the cameras, and that's a kind of strange place to deal with the guy... But I don't know what happened. It didn't look like he got hit with a Taser; I suspect it was some other electronic stun gun.

It's not good. But it's going to come down to who do you believe. The video isn't damning - or saving. Just because you've got a sympathetic accuser with questionable circumstances, it doesn't mean they're innocent of wrong, or that the accused were wrong.

Well as I've said it before I believe both are in the wrong here. The pastor came off with a smart alec remark no matter how well intended it was. You see a guy in a less than chuckalicious mood you don't mess with them like that. You see a guy in uniform and armed and in a less than chuckalicious mood you definitely don't get smarmy with them. Common sense defense tactics here. Now maybe, maybe, sometimes a smart alec remark will bust up whatever bad mood a person might be in. "Tell your face!" would sound more like a challenge. Perhaps saying something like, "do you think you could smile to show you're having a good day?" Or better yet... say... nothing.
The guards however could've simply escorted him out of the building and tell him to vacate the premises or the police will be called (which would probably be within a matter of seconds with the right wording to the dispatcher).
Yes, we don't know if the pastor was being "resisting" to being escorted out. I absolutely have inherited my father's resistance to ANYONE grabbing me by the bicep to lead me somewhere or to simply get ahold of me, (deaf and hearing impaired individuals detest this as a whole by the way). Now I'll usually control myself and just simply "cam" my arm out of their hold and respectfully (not necessarily politely) warn them not to touch me and I'll go as they want me to. If I was under arrest of course I'm not going to resist, I'm dumb but ah ain't stoopid. But I'll relent ONLY if it's sworn law enforcement officers... NOT security guards... especially if I'm being cooperative like leaving the building when asked. I've been through too much to be man-handled when I don't want to be.
Dunno if this is the case with the pastor or not that he don't like being touched in that way either and "resisted". Either way the guards went TOO FAR with their dealing of the situation. All they had to do was call the police and have the guard's honorary authority backed up by REAL authority. Now if the guards were in a situation to where they needed to defend themselves from a violent person then they can (IMO) do what they must so that the violent person cannot harm the staff and patients of the building they're guarding.
Was the pastor being violent? We'll probably never know. But they still went TOO FAR in their handling of the man. Kicking I believe isn't in any security guard's manual on detaining a possible suspect. I used to be a security guard at an airport and I definitely don't recall being told that if I had to detain someone I'd be permitted to kick the crap out of them when they were down on the ground.

 

[Ninjamom]

The video has been replaced at that site, but you may still see the interview and clips of the incident here.

 

[Archangel M]

Click on the link that was posted here.

Thats the one I was watching. I cant see anything that looks like kicking. Not that that means that the guards are right in their action. As far as I'm concerned, he was out of the bldg. Unless he did in fact attack the guards they should have just sent him packing and went back inside. And just so I'm clear Ive had some + and - experiences with security guards. Enough said on that, I dont want to offend anybody with sweeping generalizations.

 

[jks9199]

Well as I've said it before I believe both are in the wrong here. The pastor came off with a smart alec remark no matter how well intended it was. You see a guy in a less than chuckalicious mood you don't mess with them like that. You see a guy in uniform and armed and in a less than chuckalicious mood you definitely don't get smarmy with them. Common sense defense tactics here. Now maybe, maybe, sometimes a smart alec remark will bust up whatever bad mood a person might be in. "Tell your face!" would sound more like a challenge. Perhaps saying something like, "do you think you could smile to show you're having a good day?" Or better yet... say... nothing.
The guards however could've simply escorted him out of the building and tell him to vacate the premises or the police will be called (which would probably be within a matter of seconds with the right wording to the dispatcher).
Yes, we don't know if the pastor was being "resisting" to being escorted out. I absolutely have inherited my father's resistance to ANYONE grabbing me by the bicep to lead me somewhere or to simply get ahold of me, (deaf and hearing impaired individuals detest this as a whole by the way). Now I'll usually control myself and just simply "cam" my arm out of their hold and respectfully (not necessarily politely) warn them not to touch me and I'll go as they want me to. If I was under arrest of course I'm not going to resist, I'm dumb but ah ain't stoopid. But I'll relent ONLY if it's sworn law enforcement officers... NOT security guards... especially if I'm being cooperative like leaving the building when asked. I've been through too much to be man-handled when I don't want to be.
Dunno if this is the case with the pastor or not that he don't like being touched in that way either and "resisted". Either way the guards went TOO FAR with their dealing of the situation. All they had to do was call the police and have the guard's honorary authority backed up by REAL authority. Now if the guards were in a situation to where they needed to defend themselves from a violent person then they can (IMO) do what they must so that the violent person cannot harm the staff and patients of the building they're guarding.
Was the pastor being violent? We'll probably never know. But they still went TOO FAR in their handling of the man. Kicking I believe isn't in any security guard's manual on detaining a possible suspect. I used to be a security guard at an airport and I definitely don't recall being told that if I had to detain someone I'd be permitted to kick the crap out of them when they were down on the ground.

In Virginia, a security guard's authority on the property they're engaged to guard is the same as that of the property owner, meaning they DO have real authority. In fact, an armed security guard can be the arresting officer. (See Code of Virginia, 9.1-146)