67 Year Old Pastor Beaten and Tasered by Security Guards

[Cryozombie]

Al Poisson, 67, says he was visiting a friend in St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center a year ago and was in a very good mood when he came upon a glum-looking guard and joked with him.
"I said (to the guard), 'Are you happy today?' Poisson told "Early Show" co-anchor Harry Smith Friday. "He said, 'Yeah.' I said, 'Well, you oughta tell your face!' "
Poisson added that, "It went downhill from there" and turned into an "atrocious, unbelievable situation, to say the least."
The guards wound up taking Poisson outside the building, where they used a Taser and/or stun gun on him, dropping him to his knees and, he says, beat, kicked and "manhandled" him when he was down.

I watched the Video of the incident and the Interview with the gentleman in question, and it seemed pretty brutal for what they claim happened. The Guards claim that he assulted them with an elbow and hair pulling after they had him on the ground... my question is why, if he hadn't assaulted them yet was he on the ground?

According to His claims in the video, the charges against him were dismissed in court, and the incident occured because he stepped out of the patient's room who he was visiting to allow some privacy for the patient to use a urinal. The security guards told him to go back into the room or leave, and he explained why he was in the hall, and they got surly with him, which is when he made the "are you happy today" comment.

Thoughts?

 

[terryl965]

Just another tale of this country going to the pots, we have no room left for anything people are willing to beat someone down for nay reason at all.

Of course this only means one thing :lisafault:

 

[MA-Caver]

I can be a smart *** if my mind is up to it that day... but it's WHEN to be a smart *** that is the key to being successful at it and/or getting away with it. If someone isn't looking too happy then now isn't the time. Until they tell you, you just have NO idea what kind of a day a person has had and it's generally not a good idea to make an off the cuff comment like the one the pastor made, joking or not, SOME people just have absolutely NO sense of humor.

The guards however went way above and beyond their assigned duties. From sheepdogs to wolves they became and shamefully so because this was a shepherd (so to speak). As a former security guard I understood that my job is whatever it was that was assigned to me. If it was to guard a door to prevent undesirables from entering then so be it. Woof! If it was to make my presence known so that people will have a sense of security when they enter a particular building then so be it. If it's to remove trouble makers then so be it and so on.
Not having seen the video (can you please provide the link Cryro? ) I can only go on what the story says. Had the pastor wanted to enter and was denied? Was he clearly a pastor (not all wear black shirts with a white collar)? Who touched whom first? Therein lies charges for assault. Words are nothing unless they are overtly threatening. "You should tell your face" isn't a threatening statement... could be construed as insulting but not threatening by any standards, at least none that I know of.
Not to mention that at 67 ones age shows clearly and for young security guards they should know or at least feel confident enough not to manhandle such a person.
Like more details on this... it's still horrible to hear about and hopefully the guards will get theirs. Insulting or not they should've stuck to their job and ignore such cheeky remarks.

 

[shesulsa]

Well I'm certainly not Cryo but I found this.

"Maybe you should tell your face." Hm. I dunno if I'd go about saying that to anybody who wasn't a friend whether I was a person of the cloth or not. Even though I understand the intent, it comes off as a challenge or derogatory statement.

And yet there must be more to the story, eh? Why would he not be allowed in the hallway or outside the room? Was there an incident and they required a clear hall? Did he enter a restricted area?

Nevertheless, it seems he was cooperatively walking out with them. And I'm a bit disturbed that they picked a place where visibility is absolutely minimal as to their actions upon him to tase him. If they wanted him out of the building, they could have escorted him outside the pillars there instead of right next to the building.

And the charges against the pastor were thrown out, though it's not mentioned why exactly. Hmm.

 

[Kacey]

His status as a minister is not relevant, except in that it provide the reason he was in the hospital in the first place. That security guards in a hospital (or anywhere else) would respond that way to anyone for a comment - no matter how inane or impolite - is horrific. Someone needs to reacquaint them with a concept they should have learned as small children - "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me". Sadly, this man's words did lead to his being hurt.

 

[Cryozombie]

Not having seen the video (can you please provide the link Cryro? )

Sorry, It was an AOL link on AIMexpress so unless you were signed into AIM/AOL you couldnt see it so I didnt link it.

 

[Cryozombie]

Well I'm certainly not Cryo but I found this.

"Maybe you should tell your face." Hm. I dunno if I'd go about saying that to anybody who wasn't a friend whether I was a person of the cloth or not. Even though I understand the intent, it comes off as a challenge or derogatory statement.

Thanks for the link.

To me, I dunno, "If you are happy, Maybe you should tell your face" seems like a Grandfatherly way of saying "you should smile if you are happy" to me... if some young punk kid said it to me, I'd maybe question what the hell he meant... but I certainly wouldnt beat and taser someone for saying it. The guy clearly had a reason for being where he was, and, IF his side of the story is to be believed the guards came across WRONG from their inital confrontation with him, telling him to get back in the room or get out. I know the hospital I work at wouldn't tolerate that attitude from our Public Saftey people... or even a Nurse. I'd actually be curious to know WHY they didn't want him in the hallway. Again, we have no problem with patients/visitors in the hall, especially if the issue of a patient's privacy is a concern, as it seemed to be in this case.

 

[MA-Caver]

From the article and thanks Shesulsa for the link.

The Web site of CBS affiliate WTOL-TV in Toledo cites Poisson's lawsuit as claiming Poisson's son pleaded with the guards to stop because Poisson has a bad heart.
The Web site also says a police report quotes the security guards as asserting that Poisson provoked them and that, once outside, Poisson elbowed one guard and tried to pull his hair while on the ground.
The guards called Toledo police and had Poisson arrested for alleged assault, but those charges have since been dropped.
Poisson says he used to go to St. Vincent's regularly to pray with patients, but no longer can cope with doing that. He also says he's had to give up his duties at a local soup kitchen that's since closed.

Watching the vid and the interview I hope the jury will award the pastor whats due him for this atrocious act of violence against him.
There is more to this story to be sure but the hospital supporting their security guards when the video clearly shows a Rodney King type of beating... kicking while the guy is down and repeatedly tasering...
If it were my Dad (who has a pacemaker) I'd think I'd be in jail on attempted murder charges and at least a couple of those guards been in ICU listed as critical. His son was nearby but seemed unable (unwilling) to help out, other than pleading (uselessly) with the guards to stop.

Sad state of affairs and agrees with Terry at another example of this country going to the pots

 

[Cryozombie]

If it were my Dad (who has a pacemaker) I'd think I'd be in jail on attempted murder charges and at least a couple of those guards been in ICU listed as critical. His son was nearby but seemed unable (unwilling) to help out, other than pleading (uselessly) with the guards to stop.

My understanding from the Interview was that it was his 6 year old grandson, not his son.

 

[MA-Caver]

My understanding from the Interview was that it was his 6 year old grandson, not his son.

ah...

 

[shesulsa]

I think he said both his son and grandson were with him. There appears to be someone in plain clothes near what I think is his head when he's on the ground clearly conflicted about what to do. If he had physically intervened, no doubt he'd have been tazed too and then the 6 year old would have to see that.

Now that's another kind of conviction right there - holding back to be there for your kid.

 

[MA-Caver]

I think he said both his son and grandson were with him. There appears to be someone in plain clothes near what I think is his head when he's on the ground clearly conflicted about what to do. If he had physically intervened, no doubt he'd have been tazed too and then the 6 year old would have to see that.

Now that's another kind of conviction right there - holding back to be there for your kid.

Yes, but I also see intervention as a means of teaching the child to fight where there is injustice. To defend at whatever costs the lives of your family.

 

[shesulsa]

Yes, but I also see intervention as a means of teaching the child to fight where there is injustice. To defend at whatever costs the lives of your family.

True, true. However, what if the child had followed suit and jumped into the fray and been tased? Or if he hadn't and dad had, there would be no one to soothe him, talk him through. Then there would be social services to deal with as well. :idunno:

 

[Archangel M]

I saw the video. What seems odd is that it appeared to be a pretty non-violent escort out of the building until something happened outside. Im curious as to what that is. Im thinking that either the guy did get resistive OR he said something that pissed the guards off and they went beyond the bounds of reasonable force.

The "beating" allegation.

While there may be much more to the event than what was shown in that clip, sometimes people claim they were "beaten" when what was really happening was a lot of kneeling on people and twisting of arms to get handcuffs on. I didnt see a lot of "pumping elbows" that indicate blows being thrown. Again, maybe theres more to the video, but if there was some juicy violence Im fairly confident that the news would have shown it.

 

[Empty Hands]

Does anyone know what the use of force laws are that cover security guards? It seems to me that they would have a higher standard and less discretion than full police officers.

 

[Tomu]

Thats what I was wondering. Why do security guards have tazers in a hospital. Also, I agree with MA-caver, If it had been my dad or grandgather a good ol'fashioned gut stomping of some rent-a-cops would be in order.

 

[MJS]

I watched the Video of the incident and the Interview with the gentleman in question, and it seemed pretty brutal for what they claim happened. The Guards claim that he assulted them with an elbow and hair pulling after they had him on the ground... my question is why, if he hadn't assaulted them yet was he on the ground?

According to His claims in the video, the charges against him were dismissed in court, and the incident occured because he stepped out of the patient's room who he was visiting to allow some privacy for the patient to use a urinal. The security guards told him to go back into the room or leave, and he explained why he was in the hall, and they got surly with him, which is when he made the "are you happy today" comment.

Thoughts?

I can't justify assaulting someone over a simple comment. These guys should be fired IMO. Whats the difference if he was standing in the room or in the hallway? Is there some written law that say that you have to stand in a certain area?

I've had first hand experience with security at my local hospital. I was there on work related business. I was looking for the best place to park, so I pulled into the ER, continued to drive around the lot to the other side, where I was going to stop and ask one of these rent a cops where the best place to park would be. I wasn't out of the car, when this grumpy old guard began yelling that I couldn't park there. I had no intention of parking there anyways, due to the fact that there was a sign that said that that lot was reserved for hospital staff only. After I told him why I was there, he tells me that I had to park in the street. Hmm..sorry, but a) I had no intention of parking in the street for 8hrs, and b) I had no intention of walking the distance due to the fact that there was no parking in the immediate area. I left, and went to another lot, where I explained to the guy why I was there and he told me to go ahead and park. No hassle, no issue, and I went about my business.

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out, and I hope that this guy files a suit against the hospital and guards.

 

[Cryozombie]

While there may be much more to the event than what was shown in that clip, sometimes people claim they were "beaten" when what was really happening was a lot of kneeling on people and twisting of arms to get handcuffs on. I didnt see a lot of "pumping elbows" that indicate blows being thrown. Again, maybe theres more to the video, but if there was some juicy violence Im fairly confident that the news would have shown it.

It looked to me, and it was hard to say with the pillar in the way, like he was being kicked. I could be wrong, because like I said, view was obstructed by the pillar... but I'd believe it from what I saw.

 

[Ninjamom]

Agreed. It deifinitely looked to me like repeated kicks were being thrown by multiple assailants against someone prostrate on the ground. Inexcusable.

 

[shesulsa]

Agreed. Looks like he was kicked repeatedly. And he did say about 5 minutes of the tape had been edited out.