4 things needed to destroy myth of creator deity

elder999

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I wouldn't say they would be creating life as much as they would be building it from a model.

From the article:

we have started with information in a computer, used four bottles of chemicals to write up a million letters of DNA software, and actually got it to boot up in a living organism.

as I said, a step closer, if one can understand what was done, and Mr. Pastore says, at 2:43, states We're still no closer.
 

Empty Hands

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as I said, a step closer, if one can understand what was done, and Mr. Pastore says, at 2:43, states We're still no closer.

I've been around the fringes of this debate for some time. The usual outcome is rampant goalpost moving, which is what we see here. The experiment demonstrates convincingly that life is just chemistry, albeit massively complex chemistry, that can be replicated. There is no living spark, no special living essence, which is actually a very old debate in biology convincingly settled here.

Someday we won't need the shell, and an entire cell will be synthesized from purified chemical components. When that day comes, there will be some other reason that it won't count.

My Organic Chemistry Professor said something very wise to us once. "Don't base your faith on the inability of man to create life, because someday it will happen, and your faith will fail."
 

elder999

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Was that the Bettty Crocker mix or a generic brand?

A genetic brand,dontcha think? :lfao:

In any case my argument isn't with his position as much as it is the arguments he uses to support that position. Science neither proves nor disproves a single thing about a creator, the sould, or spirit. This may be because of deficiencies in the current state of science: there was a military demolition expert, some general whose name I can't recall, who insisted that the atomic bomb could not work. There are any number of scientific positions that do a complete 180 over time, as the means to investigate further becomes available from earlier investigations.Likewise, it is not the place of religion,or faith to justify itself with scientific positions-or to argue that they're incorrect simply because they fit in with their cosmology. In Mr. Pastore's case, he's also making the all too common religious error of viewing the creation myth of Genesis as a factual, historical and scientific account,rather than as the allegory it (and,for the most part, all creation myths) was intended to be: comprehension of the deity in its entirety-whether one believes or not-is supposed to be beyond the comprehension of most human brains,most of the time. It's like non-physicists dealing with the idea that before the "bigbang" there was nothing and no "time." Consequently, fangjian is partially right-there was no "before the bigbang"-hence my use of the word preceding-and whatever preceded the big bang would have to be outside this dimension,universe and space/time to have preceded them, and, consequently, brought them into being. Such a being, along with wherever and whenever it was when it brought a bout the first moment in our time, the first space in our space, is beyond the means of science as it stands now to detect-just as the extradimensional, extratemporal,and extrauniversal are to our dimension, space/time and universe.

In any case: religion/science, for the time being, ne'er the twain shall meet-nor should they. His "four big bangs" are really more like four frail flatulences, yet another billibanality (ooh! I did use it as a noun,.....)
 
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billc

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Just saying. Wouldn't you have to get down to that level to claim true life making? Isn't anything else just borrowing what is already here?
 

Empty Hands

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Hmmm...and before them?

Chemists synthesize organic molecules from simple precursors like short chain alkanes, benzenes and the like using simple reactants and solutions. Living creatures are not necessary.

Like this:
cocaine-tsf2.gif


You are proving my reductio right in front of me in minutes.

Really, you are completely outmatched on this front, this is my life's work. It would be like me trying to teach you something about frequent political posting.
 

elder999

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I've been around the fringes of this debate for some time. The usual outcome is rampant goalpost moving, which is what we see here. The experiment demonstrates convincingly that life is just chemistry, albeit massively complex chemistry, that can be replicated. There is no living spark, no special living essence, which is actually a very old debate in biology convincingly settled here.

Someday we won't need the shell, and an entire cell will be synthesized from purified chemical components. When that day comes, there will be some other reason that it won't count.

My Organic Chemistry Professor said something very wise to us once. "Don't base your faith on the inability of man to create life, because someday it will happen, and your faith will fail."

Bob, where did the "thank" button go?
 

Empty Hands

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Just saying. Wouldn't you have to get down to that level to claim true life making? Isn't anything else just borrowing what is already here?

Then you didn't create this post because you didn't create the electrons that were used to transmit and display it.

Rampant goalpost moving, just like I said.
 

elder999

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God made fire, and it seems we can as well, how would making life challenge a persons faith?

And that is absolutely correct. Give the baldish youngster from Peoria a cigar!

Can you also use it as a verb?

If you want to completely billibanalize this thread, I suppose I could......:lfao:
 

Empty Hands

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God made fire, and it seems we can as well, how would making life challenge a persons faith?

Because a very large number of people believe in a God of the Gaps. Wherever there is something we don't understand, can't perceive, or can't do? Well, that's God. In the old days when we didn't understand lightning, the God of the Gaps was Jupiter or when we didn't understand the wind there were Spirits of the Air. The Gaps are getting smaller though. Now that we know what causes those, the God of the Gaps has been relegated to pre-Big Bang cosmology or the creation of life. Someday we will create life, and another Gap will close. Such are people.
 

elder999

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Because a very large number of people believe in a God of the Gaps. Wherever there is something we don't understand, can't perceive, or can't do? Well, that's God. In the old days when we didn't understand lightning, the God of the Gaps was Jupiter or when we didn't understand the wind there were Spirits of the Air. The Gaps are getting smaller though. Now that we know what causes those, the God of the Gaps has been relegated to pre-Big Bang cosmology or the creation of life. Someday we will create life, and another Gap will close. Such are people.
No gaps: if the big bang theory is true, then an entity such as a Creator simly must have preceded it. Likewise any other act or moment of creation.
 
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