4 things needed to destroy myth of creator deity

[billc]

From Dennis Prager comes Prager university where he takes 5 minutes to explore a topic. This topic is belief and atheism and 4 things that need to be explained to end the myth of the creator deity. Here is the 5 minute class...

http://www.prageruniversity.com/Religion-Philosophy/The-Four-Big-Bangs.html

From the video: Who takes the greater leap of faith -- the atheist or the believer? Best selling
author and award-winning radio talk show host, Frank Pastore, poses this
question in this compelling Prager University video course

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Thanks_to_xkcd_I'll_never_give_a_normal_forum_response_ever_again.

 

[Tez3]

Thanks_to_xkcd_I'll_never_give_a_normal_forum_response_ever_again.

Oh yes, we like that!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Who takes the greater leap of faith -- the atheist or the believer?

Actually....that's a good question.

There is no proof either way of life after death, etc.
Heck, I'm unconvinced on the issue as both arguments make sense to me.

 

[elder999]

Bob's right. It is a good question.

Unfortunately, Mr. Pastore's arguments are weak.

He starts with an argument of appeal to authority: "Aristotle, Aquinas," etc.-but doesn't offer any of what they had to say on the subject, only that they made things difficult for him. At this point, as a scientist, it's worth pointing out that the "father of the scientific method," Aristotle, was guilty of many simple mistakes, like the observation that male humans have more teeth than females, or that heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. While it's impossible to discount the importance and meaning of his work, he's hardly an "authority" worthy of appeal...

He then proceeds to delineate his "four big bangs." His lack of understanding of the first one is not surprising: people here on MT often have expressed their difficulty in grasping the idea of "nothing." That he makes this an either/or proposition in terms of a deity is a basic mistake-just as it is with the other three "big bangs," that demonstrate less and less understanding as he progresses.The idea that it all just "banged" isn't what the "big bang" theory really says at all, and we can see evidence of transitional stages in the universe's development through astrology-by looking at objects and events that are further away from us, we are literally looking further and further back in time toward the initiating events of the universe, and seeing evidence of the transitions that Mr. Pastore claims do not exist in his understanding of the theory.

I'll leave his muddled understanding of biology to a biologist like Empty Hands to really dissect-I'll just point oput that he's wrong:artificial life was created in the laboratory two years ago. Of course, it's entirely possible that he filmed this segment before this took place.....in any case, he's wrong.

His "anthropological" big bang could simply be attributed to evolution, and usually is-he needs to take a look at some of the work being done in evolutionary anthropology.

His psychological big bang also could be attributed to evolution. Funnily enough, his argument that animals don't do art is, again, simply wrong: elephants do art. Who is Mr. Pastore to make humankind the exclusive arbiters of beauty and truth on the planet? What does he know of whales and their-undeniably beautiful-song? What truths, given the chance, could they tell us?

HE closes by saying that we're confronted with a choice: "faith" in "four big bangs," or "faith in a Creator," when, in fact, there really doesn't have to be a choice at all. One can believe in a Creator and accept current scientific theory-the two are neither mutually exclusive nor set in stone-even the believer has doubt:

]Mark 9:24 Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!"

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Creationism is believing a God said "Let there be light" and it was so.
Evolutionism is believing that said God had to get up off the sofa and plug the light in after first taking the light out of the box and screwing it into a socket.

In an overly brief and highly condensed way.

I can see all the different variations as being, somewhat true.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Creationism is believing a God said "Let there be light" and it was so.
Evolutionism is believing that said God had to get up off the sofa and plug the light in after first taking the light out of the box and screwing it into a socket.

In an overly brief and highly condensed way.

I can see all the different variations as being, somewhat true.

Hopefully he didn't buy his lamp at IKEA, or we'd still be waiting on him putting the bloody thing together, and life would never have happened at all!

 

[elder999]

Er.. I meant "astronomy. " Done that all my life....:lol:

 

[Sukerkin]

Only one thing required not to cling to a Creator-Deity-Mythology.

I'll just leave it at that. Otherwise people will be reporting me for not giving their deliberately undisprovable beliefs equal footing with science and rational thought.

 

[billc]

To settle this, let's just go where the big bang happened and start studying the site and see what we find. Since that is where it all began it will probably answer a lot of questions for us. What...we can't go there... well...what do you mean...if we can't go there, or leave this rock we are on and so many other things that we can't do yet, and don't know yet, I can see where some might think they have the answer to those big questions.

 

[SensibleManiac]

We don't have to settle this and btw, we have left this rock we are on...
But your statement only demonstrates how little you understand, that doesn't mean we know everything or that I'm claiming to know everything about the universe as I clearly don't and I can honestly say this based on what I understand, and you clearly do not.

It just makes me laugh when people who have very little understanding about the facts and the theories surrounding the universe and it's creation comment on it like they know what they are talking about when they clearly do not.
Kind of like if I was talking about manicures and pedicures, something of which I have no clue but I started talking about it because of a story that was forced down my throat about someone who liked clipping peoples nails.
I guess manicurists would look at me like I was an idiot...

 

[elder999]

Only one thing required not to cling to a Creator-Deity-Mythology.

I'll just leave it at that. Otherwise people will be reporting me for not giving their deliberately undisprovable beliefs equal footing with science and rational thought.

Oh, well I'll say it, Marc, 'cause you're right.

THe only thing to needed to kill the mythology of a creator deity is for people to not believe in them, by Zeus' beard and Odin's missing eye!

Or, if you prefer, the end of the human race......:lfao:

 

[Archangel M]

Just because humans have had different conceptions of what "God" is over the years proves nothing. Perhaps it's definition was at one time described through parable and metaphor and is maybe now being described through theoretical physics and "science" (which for all we know may look like 17th century science does to us a few hundred years from now). This doesn't necessarily disprove "Gods" existence.

And pointing at "believers" and implying that they are shallow, unthinking, ignorant rubes who believe that God is some white bearded man in the sky a la Renaissance paintings, is at best simply being rude or at worst exhibiting self-serving arrogance utilized to elevate ones ego. There is a WIDE range of personal conception of what the Creator is.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I was talking to God the other day about this and She said that mankind hasn't matured enough yet to understand these things.

Wait, you say you have a holy book that says God is a guy? Well, that's funny, mine says Gods a she.
Those guys over there says that God is a group of folks, and that fellow napping under the tree says God is just the positive energy of the universe or something.
Personally, I think he's been sipping some funny tea, but what do I know.

Guess we're gonna have to check back in 100 years and see who was right.
Well, except those fellows over there. They seem to be stuck in a repeat.

 

[Tez3]

Why does it matter so much to some people what others believe or don't believe?

 

[JohnEdward]

I don't know the 4 things that would destroy the myth but I know a few things keep it going.

1. Lite beer
2. Beer Drinking Rednecks (what else kid are there)
3. Ann Coulter and Homer Simpson
4. The missionary position
5. more lite beer with the can that tells you the beer is at the perfect cold temp.

 

[WC_lun]

Why does it matter so much to some people what others believe or don't believe?

Because if your belief isn't the same as mine then you MUST be wrong and therefore an ignorant savage. If you are an ignorant savage then your thoughts and feelings aren't as valid as mine, so it okay to treat you different than people who are like me.


Who cares if your god is the right god, someone else's god is the right one, they all are the right ones, or none of them are the right one? If you treat each other like crap, it doesn't matter anyway and any god worth a damn would be embarrassed to have followers that treat others badly. Of course that is just my opinion, since no god talks to me to tell me how they really feel.

 

[Jenna]

Why does it matter so much to some people what others believe or don't believe?

Because people will ALWAYS feel a need to be vindicated and validated in what they choose to believe about their world.

 

[Jenna]

Personally I am still waiting for the imminent discovery of those infinite mid-stage variants of inter-species evolutionary fossils before I make up my mind. Ah the genius of Darwin.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Ha!_Here's_the_one_I_was_looking_for!_Also,_I_need_to_get_to_sleep.