Very strange TaeKwonDo instructional roundhouse kick

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Alan Smithee, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    1. The ITF is an organization or organizations that set technical parameters according to the Chang Hon system they follow. There is no such thing as "Kick X in the ITF" Such a mistake makes the same terminology distinction as using the specified English term for the Korean Term vis a vis the term being "Turning" as opposed to roundhouse, and if anything the "Turning Kick" would rarely be used in sparring, it would more likely be the "Side Turning" if accepted Chang Hon Terminology were to be used.
    2. Perhaps someone else can find the reference in the text, and perhaps I will locate it later, but the idea of modifying or adapting techniques for sparring from their technical / pattern aspects is addressed by General Choi. This is evident simply by watching how ITF people punch while sparring. It would be hard to find the classic / pattern / technical stance -punch in a sparring match.
    3. Many kicks "Do not exist" in the Chang Hon system if you consider that non existence is proven because it is not shown in General Choi's texts yet they are easily found in sparring. A common example would be an offensive "Hook Kick" with the lead leg or rear leg turning forward. Only Reverse Hook Kick - turning rearword with the rear leg is listed.
     
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  2. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    [
    Have you ever used the term roundhouse kick in your ITF class or the ones you took?
     
  3. Alan Smithee

    Alan Smithee Blue Belt

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    Not over here. If the practitioner does not throw the intended kick, the angle at which the turning kick is supposed to travel at is specified. We never use the term side turning kick even though it exists. Regardless, Dirty Dogs sweeping statement with regards to "roundhouse kicks" may apply to his KKW but not ITF.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  4. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

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    This thread makes zero sense. It's not a discussion, it's a bunch of people talking past each other. Some of the individual posts are incoherent in themselves. There's nothing to be learned from such exchanges.

    The kick in the OP video exists. That is a fact.

    The kick has multiple names depending on association / affiliation / federation / location. Also a fact.

    The example in the video is not a good one - subjective but majority agreed between a peer group, so we can take it as fact.

    What is left to discuss?

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  5. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    "Ever" is a long time. I did lots of stuff wrong. In 1990 I took my first IIC. My notes reflected 150 things I needed to fix. From that time on I have tried to diligently conform my terminology to what the text used at the time so as to be on the same page with other ITF instructors. So, it is not likely I used it since around that time. Referencing classes I took are you referring to what other ITF instructors may have done going back to 1971 or so?
     
  6. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    A. Where is "Over Here"
    B. Semantic issue here concerning "the angle at which the turning kick is supposed to travel " I am not sure if this references if the kick travels more or less horizontally in relation to the floor, or referencing where the target is. Which are you referring to?
     
  7. spawn2031

    spawn2031 Yellow Belt

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    My primary experience is in Kenpo but I have recently been exposed to 2 different TKD dojos in the past 6 months, so my exposure to TKD is limited BUT in both dojos I was able to learn that my roundhouse kick needed A LOT of work because the best that I can do looks like the first kick in the video, coming up at a 45. From what I was shown, the proper way to throw it was to chamber with your kicking leg parallel to the ground before extending it out to your target (my 5 year old corrects me all the time, cuz he has great ones!! lol). I can say from my own personal experience that my roundhouse kick looks like the guys in the video right now due to lack of flexibility in my hips which thankfully is improving... albeit slowly! I think this is first time I've read a post or seen a vid that says throwing it at a 45 like that is ok. Just my 2 cents.
     
  8. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    It's not OK in forms, or at least I am unaware of any form set that includes the angled variant. But for sparring or fighting, it's absolutely fine.
     
  9. spawn2031

    spawn2031 Yellow Belt

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    yeah I can think of a few places it could work well but I only use for now until I increase my flexibility and do it the right way. Otherwise my son will never let me hear the end of it! Lol
     
  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    You'e missing the point. The angled kick is the correct way. And so is the parallel to the ground kick. Frankly, the forms version will be far less useful in sparring or fighting. It's the best way to kick the head, but for anything below the shoulders the angled version is far more effective. And that makes it correct.
     
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  11. paitingman

    paitingman Purple Belt

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    It has all always been roundhouse kick to me.
    It all depends on the open pathway for my lower leg.

    Sometimes the pathway requires my lower leg to be more parallel with my knee chambered higher.

    Other times my foot can take a more linear path from the floor, under their arm, if there isn't a leg in the way.

    The energy and nuance can be quite different. So I don't disagree with those who teach them as separate techniques.
    All under roundhouse umbrella in my training.

    I don't understand the OP's misunderstanding or point in carrying on with this discussion.

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  12. paitingman

    paitingman Purple Belt

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    I usually use more diagonal version of rh.

    Some criticize it as being a soccer kick because the knee chamber is different.
    The lower leg is extending as the knee is being raised instead of after a full chamber.
    When done properly, the knee should be about the same height as traditional rh when the foot hits the target.

    And my hip position during and after impact leaves faster and more diverse options for how I can place my foot back on the floor.

    How do others here use different ways to execute roundhouse kick?

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  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    It's like a whip. the

    - body rotation pull the hip.
    - hip pull the upper leg.
    - upper leg pull the lower leg.
    - lower leg pull the foot.

     
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  14. Luminouschrome

    Luminouschrome White Belt

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    The 45 degree sport variation shortcut often found in Taekwondo tournaments is not used in full contact Kickboxing for a reason. They use the horizontal, always (unless there's a brawling scrap going on). Not only does it avoid banging into elbows, it is much, much more powerful. The difference is that the pace of those fights are completely different since they also box, and they often set up kicks with boxing first.

    And yes, some of them even use ball of the foot, usually those from FC Karate styles.
     
  15. paitingman

    paitingman Purple Belt

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    For reasons you stated here, the 45 degree RH really shines as a headkick in kickboxing and kyokushin style competition.
    You see it a little more to the body in mma these days.

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  16. Luminouschrome

    Luminouschrome White Belt

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    Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. The roundhouse kick used in kickboxing is NOT the 45 degree vertical kick used in TKD sport. It is the traditional horizontal one
     
  17. paitingman

    paitingman Purple Belt

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    What is your center of gravity doing?
    Can you shift weight forward or back while kicking this way?
    Can you describe footwork when executing this kick on someone?
    How do you feel about the power with whipping motion?

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  18. Luminouschrome

    Luminouschrome White Belt

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    Anytime you see a kickboxer throw a horizontal roundhouse kick with the instep or ball of the foot as striking surface, you are actually witnessing TMA style kicking. There are several all time greats like Ernesto Hoost, Mirco Cocop, etc who used TMA style roundhouses, at least to the head
     
  19. paitingman

    paitingman Purple Belt

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    In kickboxing, American style and K1 style, 45 degree is used almost as often as not when kicking to the head with rear leg.

    For the reasons you stated, like hitting elbow, you don't see it thrown to the body as often. At least when striking with the foot.



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  20. Luminouschrome

    Luminouschrome White Belt

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    Another reason horizontal roundhouses are not used in TKD comp is because TKDoins almost always take a side-on stance. When they do throw roundhouses from the rear leg, they emphasize speed/disguise over power. This would not work in a kickboxing ring since emphasis is on power. Thus TKDoins have to use a horisontal one in FC setting, if they want to win that is... So there is good reason not to neglect traditional techniques123
     

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