Use of Force Law

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Tgace, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    PA law does have a "goading" exception as well. Not sure about Florida, I'll have to research that one.
     
  2. Transk53

    Transk53 The Dark Often Prevails

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    I wonder if there is a sliding scale on goading. With you lot the threat level is more significant IMHO
     
  3. stonewall1350

    stonewall1350 Blue Belt

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    Florida SYG law removes duty to retreat. That is all it does. Per Section 776.013 (use of force law)

    Below is the link to the law removing our Duty to Retreat (aka Stand your ground)

    Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

    2c-d)

    (c) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force is engaged in a criminal activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further a criminal activity; or
    (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used or threatened is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using or threatening to use force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

    Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

    I know our law was fumbled a little bit RIGHT when I got my concealed, but has since been updated to be more logical. If you are in the act of committing a crime...the law does not apply. :)


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    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
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  4. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    Oh I didn't know about the amendments made later, my bad. I was simply remembering having DAs going en mass to Harrisburg to lobby for what you noted above in the PA law (which was passed shortly after FLs) pointing to the lack of said provisions in FL as an example of how not to do it. Thanks for the update :)
     
  5. stonewall1350

    stonewall1350 Blue Belt

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    Duplicate ooops:)
     
  6. stonewall1350

    stonewall1350 Blue Belt

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    No problem. :)

    I am pretty up to date because of having my concealed carry. I don't like not knowing legislation. Plus our laws are REALLY easy to read. They have to reference the laws to which they refer and quote them. It is nice.


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  7. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Again that depends on how you define deadly force. Supposedly any sort of strike to the head can be defined as deadly force in court.
     
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  8. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Just no.
     
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  9. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    No. There is a legal definition of deadly force. Deadly force is that which is likely to cause serious bodily harm or death. Or, in the code you replied to -- "imminent death or great bodily harm." Pretty much synonymous. The definition is consistent across courts and many countries, even. Sometimes there's arguments about what amounts to "serious bodily harm" -- but it pretty typically amounts to injury that will significantly impair or impede normal function in life.
     
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  10. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    Pretty much. I think sometimes people may get a "red zone" via the UoF continuum confused with lethal force.
     
  11. wingchun100

    wingchun100 Senior Master

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    Oh my bad...after reading through some of the exchanges, I thought I was on the Wing Chun forum for a moment. How has this not gotten locked down yet? LOL
     
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  12. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Striking to the head has a good chance of knocking out teeth, breaking noses and so forth both of which fall under the category of great bodily harm.
     
  13. Transk53

    Transk53 The Dark Often Prevails

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    Yes but not deadly force. The repercussions could be though. Say trauma caused when they hit the deck. Likely would result in being charged with manslaughter.
     
  14. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    Have you ever arrested or charged someone with assault/battery/harassment, or been involved in a prosecution for same? I think some of us have a pretty good grip at what qualifies ad deadly physical force and what doesn't within our particular jurisdictions.
     
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  15. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    I've never been involved in any legalities regarding the use of force in a confrontation but I know of people that have.
     
  16. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    You know of... or you know? Either way -- you're missing the point. Several of us INSTRUCT this stuff. You're playing semantic games without getting the underlying point. There is a fairly specific definition of what constitutes "lethal force" and "serious bodily injury", and while there is some variation across jurisdictions, or even from one judge or prosecutor to the next -- by and large, they're all in the same wheelhouse. You're trying to suggest that a broken nose or even some missing teeth are on the same level as amputation of a limb, lacerations or incisions that threaten bleeding out, or other injuries that have a major impact on ordinary daily functioning of life. Now, there are indeed times and circumstances that might escalate any blow to the head to lethal force, they're generally pretty rare. And, of course, when you throw the punch, you buy anything that might be seen as springing from it, so if they guy falls and cracks his skull on a rock, you're screwed... Then there are all the trained fighter arguments...
     
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  17. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    I know specific examples of people getting in trouble causing specific levels of injury in confrontations. I know of a martial arts student who was charged and convicted of a felony for knocking a guy's teeth out in a confrontation although the circumstances leading up to the confrontation no doubt played a big role in his conviction. I do not consider knocking out teeth to be at the same level as some of the other injuries that you suggest such as amputation of a limb, lacerations, ect. but its not about what I consider it to be its about what the law considers it to be. In some states broken bones and knocking out teeth fall under the category of "grave bodily harm" and carry that weight in court.
     
  18. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, charged with a felony for knocking teeth out. Probably malicious wounding or aggravsted assault depending on state code. That doesn't make it lethal force. Find and cite a specific case or code section equating a broken limb, knocked out teeth, even broken ribs with lethal force, rather than serious injury by itself. Knock a guy's tooth out, he falls, and suffers a depressed skull fracture hittibg the curb, and you might well find yourself charged with manslaughter. Notice the added factor?

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  19. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    Exactly. And even then...depending on all the circumstances...you may not get convicted.
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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