Really discouraged!

[Kickboxer101]

Firstly, this guy is not willing to show up, so you've just changed your stance on him.

Secondly, there are people who show up to show off or to be able to brag about what they are doing. Those folks are not there to learn. They get a chance, but their attitude is detrimental to the learning of others and eventually presents a physical risk to others (because they often show off by over-doing a technique they don't understand). Before it reaches that point, it's the responsibility of the instructor to remove the problem.

Yep seen those type I had a friend who came to my club and sat out and watched a session then next day went round telling everyone he does kickboxing...and never turned up again but kept on saying he did it

 

[stonewall1350]

No one is requiring instructors to teach. There's no law that says they've got to guarantee learning for everyone who even bothers to show up and call themselves a "student" (never mind those who won't even do that). Not everyone is willing to learn. Not everyone is capable of learning the needed lessons. I'd mention that old "empty your cup" hackneyed saw, but I don't think you'd understand.

Nobody is entitled to your knowledge. But if you want to call yourself an instructor, you have to actually be an instructor. That means recognizing that difficult students are just that. And sometimes they are the ones who need your instruction the most. Being a hard *** won't make that any easier either.

If you call yourself an instructor you have an ethical obligation to actually be a teacher. If you don't care about ethics, fine. You have no legal obligation to be ethical. As for the difficult student that we are discussing right now, as I said to the other poster I think it is about fear. I think there's a psychological block. And I understand that not everybody is capable of handling that.

PS

I am not saying that I disagree or agree with you or the person to what you were talking. Just giving my two cents worth of fair and reasonable discussion in the name of honorable discourse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kickboxer101]

Nobody is entitled to your knowledge. But if you want to call yourself an instructor, you have to actually be an instructor. That means recognizing that difficult students are just that. And sometimes they are the ones who need your instruction the most. Being a hard *** won't make that any easier either.

If you call yourself an instructor you have an ethical obligation to actually be a teacher. If you don't care about ethics, fine. You have no legal obligation to be ethical. As for the difficult student that we are discussing right now, as I said to the other poster I think it is about fear. I think there's a psychological block. And I understand that not everybody is capable of handling that.

PS

I am not saying that I disagree or agree with you or the person to what you were talking. Just giving my two cents worth of fair and reasonable discussion in the name of honorable discourse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The whole point of this is the guy doesn't actually want to learn he likes watching his videos and pretending he knows what he's talking about and ignores everyone's advice that's why people can't be bothered. Tell me if you had a student who asked the same question every single lesson week after week would you still be as patient the hundredth time as you were the first that's what this guys doing

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Oh I think he has hooked you folks, line and sinker, into showing that most of you lack any real knowledge concerning true combat applications.

And he has shown that not all people who claim to be instructors, really are not even close.

Yes, I have analyzed the conversations and I see a guy asking questions and researching info about different arts. Then I see the angered responses from the drama groups, simply because he will disagree.

There are hundreds if not thousand of different arts and one should dig deeply into the subject in order to consider which is best for them

Thats what I see.

Your last claim makes it clear that you don't understand how variable a single art can be. Even if a prospective student researched arts for a century, he'd still have no idea about the school he's going to visit. I'm a JMA kinda guy, but that doesn't mean I can choose my school by looking at videos of JMA. An MMA gym down the street might actually be the best fit - people, techniques, and instructor - for me. I'll only know if I visit, observe a class or two, then (if all looks good to that point) step on the mats and see how it goes.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

You know, for someone who claims to dislike drama, you spend a lot of your time making statements that appear to be designed to create it.

In response to sarcastic comments only. But, I understand your point.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would disagree, how can a person even call themselves a teacher, if they do not feel responsible, at least partially, for their students progression thru the art.

At what point did I claim an instructor has no responsibility? You, however, clearly claimed that the student has none. That's obviously and demonstrably false.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Your last claim makes it clear that you don't understand how variable a single art can be. Even if a prospective student researched arts for a century, he'd still have no idea about the school he's going to visit. I'm a JMA kinda guy, but that doesn't mean I can choose my school by looking at videos of JMA. An MMA gym down the street might actually be the best fit - people, techniques, and instructor - for me. I'll only know if I visit, observe a class or two, then (if all looks good to that point) step on the mats and see how it goes.

Sorry lot accidentally hit disagree while scrolling through on my iPad lol

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nobody is entitled to your knowledge. But if you want to call yourself an instructor, you have to actually be an instructor. That means recognizing that difficult students are just that. And sometimes they are the ones who need your instruction the most. Being a hard *** won't make that any easier either.

If you call yourself an instructor you have an ethical obligation to actually be a teacher. If you don't care about ethics, fine. You have no legal obligation to be ethical. As for the difficult student that we are discussing right now, as I said to the other poster I think it is about fear. I think there's a psychological block. And I understand that not everybody is capable of handling that.

PS

I am not saying that I disagree or agree with you or the person to what you were talking. Just giving my two cents worth of fair and reasonable discussion in the name of honorable discourse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would agree, except that the instructor also has to consider the other students. If I have two students who take all my time, I'm depriving those who are working at it. I love to help people overcome their attitudes as much as anyone, but I have an obligation (yes, an ethical one) not to ignore the larger group.

On top of that, most instructors simply aren't trained on how to help attitude problems. Doing it the wrong way can sometimes be worse than asking them to leave - that's another ethical issue instructors have to deal with.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Your last claim makes it clear that you don't understand how variable a single art can be. Even if a prospective student researched arts for a century, he'd still have no idea about the school he's going to visit. I'm a JMA kinda guy, but that doesn't mean I can choose my school by looking at videos of JMA. An MMA gym down the street might actually be the best fit - people, techniques, and instructor - for me. I'll only know if I visit, observe a class or two, then (if all looks good to that point) step on the mats and see how it goes.

I do understand exactly how variable an art can be. But, a person has the right to seek until their hearts their hearts desire. It shouldnt matter how long it takes and when he finds one he likes, he will go. But until HE is ready, what really is the harm?

Are people just upset because he criticizes their specific art, or is it arrogance?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry lot accidentally hit disagree while scrolling through on my iPad lol

And me with no "Disagree with your mis-clicked disagree" rating.

 

[Tez3]

And you know that all these people have no knowledge? Looks like you're even more full of your own **** than the op

Be respectful, this is the man who can grapple with vicious dogs and make them tap out so they follow him anywhere...... ( he said so )

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I do understand exactly how variable an art can be. But, a person has the right to seek until their hearts their hearts desire. It shouldnt matter how long it takes and when he finds one he likes, he will go. But until HE is ready, what really is the harm?

Are people just upset because he criticizes their specific art, or is it arrogance?

My point was that a student will never find the perfect art. Yeah, it would be a good thing for a student who has some knowledge to do some research in advance. A student with no knowledge, however, is unlikely to be able to do useful ressearch. He likely won't understand and recognize the difference between demonstration videos, sport sparring, and RBSD simulations, for one. And that single lack of background will make some videos cause him to bypass arts that are a good match, while embracing arts that don't fit him.

But, yes, he can search all he wants. He can ask questions all he wants, so long as he asks respectfully (just common courtesy, nothing different than I'd expect if someone asked a question at Target or Macy's) and actually makes use of the information he receives in response. If someone doesn't use the information they get in response, it's unlikely they'll do any differently when they start taking classes.

 

[pgsmith]

I feel kind of the same way. I see this guy as being afraid of getting hit. Afraid of pain. I see fear. That's it. And I see a lot of people who don't have patience for different learning styles. Not everyone is a tough guy who can handle the idea of pain. Hell...I see fear of something new.

That may be entirely true. However, it is not my responsibility as an instructor to nurture his feelings and persuade him to train in the martial arts. In fact, I would much prefer that he stay away and give that opportunity to other students that are eager to train. As Gerry says, if one person is taking up an inordinate amount of my very limited teaching time, then I am shorting the other students that are eager to learn.

Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach do.

That is a time-worn cliché used by those who are not advanced enough in any art to be expected to teach themselves.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Its lousey advice in my opinion. When one knows northing about the arts.

Do you expect someone with no understanding of an art to be able to quickly gain that understanding by watching videos and reading books? The fastest way to gain understanding is by training. The second fastest is by observing and asking questions of the people you're observing, then learning from the answers. The second makes a great lead-in to the first. He may not find a right fit the first time, but what he learns in that attempt will better inform him for his next attempt.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I do understand exactly how variable an art can be. But, a person has the right to seek until their hearts their hearts desire. It shouldnt matter how long it takes and when he finds one he likes, he will go. But until HE is ready, what really is the harm?

Are people just upset because he criticizes their specific art, or is it arrogance?

Nope arrogance seems to be your problem

 

[Deleted member 34973]

He
[QUOE="gpseymour, post: 1781120, member: 27826"]My point was that a student will never find the perfect art. Yeah, it would be a good thing for a student who has some knowledge to do some research in advance. A student with no knowledge, however, is unlikely to be able to do useful ressearch. He likely won't understand and recognize the difference between demonstration videos, sport sparring, and RBSD simulations, for one. And that single lack of background will make some videos cause him to bypass arts that are a good match, while embracing arts that don't fit him.

But, yes, he can search all he wants. He can ask questions all he wants, so long as he asks respectfully (just common courtesy, nothing different than I'd expect if someone asked a question at Target or Macy's) and actually makes use of the information he receives in response. If someone doesn't use the information they get in response, it's unlikely they'll do any differently when they start taking classes.[/QUOTE]
He could find the perfect art for him and I believe he will. I dont believe he will find it through asking questions about arts on MT.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Nope arrogance seems to be your problem

Yes, you seem to say that when someone disagrees with you.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Yes, you seem to say that when someone disagrees with you.

No just when the persons acting like an arrogant jerk

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Do you expect someone with no understanding of an art to be able to quickly gain that understanding by watching videos and reading books? The fastest way to gain understanding is by training. The second fastest is by observing and asking questions of the people you're observing, then learning from the answers. The second makes a great lead-in to the first. He may not find a right fit the first time, but what he learns in that attempt will better inform him for his next attempt.

No, I do not think that. What I do think and have stated before, a person should research a subject extensively before they purchase that subject and I dont think he is doing anything harmful by asking questions, about a system.

I really dont see the problem, other than some people finding offense when he critiques their system.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

No just when the persons acting like an arrogant jerk

Good for you kiddo....
Now that was arrogance.