Really discouraged!

[drop bear]

I have and a majority of the time, those who answer, regardless of if its him or not, iisa sarcastic answer.

No I believe, after several months of observation, that you have about 5-6 regulars, that attack anyone who disagrees with the popular opinion.

That is what I have observed. Folks running people off.

The mean girls?

The worst part is they will run off anyone who does not want to stand and trade.

And all you will be left with is me.

 

[stonewall1350]

That may be entirely true. However, it is not my responsibility as an instructor to nurture his feelings and persuade him to train in the martial arts. In fact, I would much prefer that he stay away and give that opportunity to other students that are eager to train. As Gerry says, if one person is taking up an inordinate amount of my very limited teaching time, then I am shorting the other students that are eager to learn.



That is a time-worn cliché used by those who are not advanced enough in any art to be expected to teach themselves.

It may be a time work cliche, but it is true. Not everyone is a good teacher. Some people are just too impatient and expect everyone to follow exactly what they do every time, and then write the people off who can't do just that. They believe it is "their way" or the "highway" and don't realize that there are a variety of methods to teach and that they need to adapt their own approach and it will solve 99% of their communication problems. And in reality...that is what a bad teacher is: a bad communicator.


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[lklawson]

They are all willing to learn, if they show up, its usually a bad instructor or instruction that causes them to leave.

You know, when I wrote that your earlier statement was the stupidest I'd seen yet in this thread, it wasn't to challenge you to greater efforts of stupid statements but, rather, to encourage you away from stupid statements.

Sadly...

 

[lklawson]

Another tactic of a poor excuse of an instructor. Please tell me you are not one. Nothing more pathetic than an internet **** talker.

Dang, my new collection is getting full quick. There's just no challenge in it. And, much like your crazy aunt's collection of salt and pepper shakers, no one else wants them.

 

[lklawson]

Because he gets the exact same answers from all of you.

Detectives might call that a "clew."

 

[lklawson]

Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach do.

Another idiotic statement.

 

[lklawson]

Nobody is entitled to your knowledge. But if you want to call yourself an instructor, you have to actually be an instructor. That means recognizing that difficult students are just that. And sometimes they are the ones who need your instruction the most. Being a hard *** won't make that any easier either.

If you call yourself an instructor you have an ethical obligation to actually be a teacher. If you don't care about ethics, fine. You have no legal obligation to be ethical. As for the difficult student that we are discussing right now, as I said to the other poster I think it is about fear. I think there's a psychological block. And I understand that not everybody is capable of handling that.

PS

I am not saying that I disagree or agree with you or the person to what you were talking. Just giving my two cents worth of fair and reasonable discussion in the name of honorable discourse.


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The whole "difficult student" thing is a deliberate distraction. The poster made the patently stupid claim that every "student" wants to learn and that any "student" who doesn't learn is the result of bad instruction. The claims aren't about a "difficult student," the claims are, well, frankly, uninformed.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

It may be a time work cliche, but it is true.

No, it isn't. "Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach." is an absolutely false statement.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No, it isn't. "Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach." is an absolutely false statement.

Agreed. For instance, I recall Drop Bear posting that his coach/instructor is a champion fighter (MMA, I think). Someone who can do, and teaches.

I've also seen plenty of people who do neither.

There are also those whose skill is developing others' talents. The great golf coaches would be among those. Dave Pelz never has been as good at the game as the pros he coaches.

 

[Kickboxer101]

No, it isn't. "Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach." is an absolutely false statement.

yep complete rubbish my coach has multiple wins such as
1st place at the TYGA Karate & Kickboxing World Championships, Gold two years running at the PKA National Tournament, first place at the CIMAC Superleague Open Tournament, WAKO Full Contact British Title 2013, Silver in the Austrian Classics World Cup Tournament 2013 in Full Contact and most recentely Silver medal in the WKA K1 British Open 2015. He is also a member of the Great Britain kickboxing squad

he's also obviously a good coach as a number of his students have won number of fights and medals and titles so yeah absolute rubbish sentence

 

[pgsmith]

It may be a time work cliche, but it is true. Not everyone is a good teacher. Some people are just too impatient and expect everyone to follow exactly what they do every time, and then write the people off who can't do just that. They believe it is "their way" or the "highway" and don't realize that there are a variety of methods to teach and that they need to adapt their own approach and it will solve 99% of their communication problems. And in reality...that is what a bad teacher is: a bad communicator.

But there is a vast amount of difference between a teacher at a public (or private) school who's job is to pass knowledge on to their students, and a martial arts instructor who already has another job during the day. The vast majority of martial arts instructors contribute their very limited teaching time to passing on their knowledge to a limited number of hard-working deshi. When I am at the dojo, it really is "my way or the highway", and I really don't care to adapt my approach in the slightest. It doesn't make me a bad teacher, it means that I am passing on the school's knowledge in the same manner that it was passed to me, as I am expected to do. Since the school has been passed down this way since it was first formed in 1693, it's pretty difficult to argue with their methodology.

 

[PhotonGuy]

But there is a vast amount of difference between a teacher at a public (or private) school who's job is to pass knowledge on to their students, and a martial arts instructor who already has another job during the day. The vast majority of martial arts instructors contribute their very limited teaching time to passing on their knowledge to a limited number of hard-working deshi. When I am at the dojo, it really is "my way or the highway", and I really don't care to adapt my approach in the slightest. It doesn't make me a bad teacher, it means that I am passing on the school's knowledge in the same manner that it was passed to me, as I am expected to do. Since the school has been passed down this way since it was first formed in 1693, it's pretty difficult to argue with their methodology.

For some martial arts instructors, being a martial arts instructor is their full time job.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

For some martial arts instructors, being a martial arts instructor is their full time job.

For some. As I understand it, that's more common in the US than in Europe.

 

[Kickboxer101]

For some martial arts instructors, being a martial arts instructor is their full time job.

Yeah but they're still giving up their time to do it and in the case of the op he's emailing the instructor so he's talking to him outside his working hours and basically criticising him saying he knows more than him why should he waste his free time he could be spending with his wife and kids replying to some guy who will never turn up and is obviously already set in their own opinion, if the guy turns up at his school then yes he should answer all questions because it's in his working hours. Imagine if you were off work and your boss or a client kept bothering you with different problems you'd most likely so go away I'm not working now I'll deal with it when I'm at work. Same for martial art instructors, maybe for some it's their job but it's not their whole life either.

 

[drop bear]

Agreed. For instance, I recall Drop Bear posting that his coach/instructor is a champion fighter (MMA, I think). Someone who can do, and teaches.

I've also seen plenty of people who do neither.

There are also those whose skill is developing others' talents. The great golf coaches would be among those. Dave Pelz never has been as good at the game as the pros he coaches.

And is a high school teacher as well.
No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

Otherwise Guthrie is right about the tendency to dogpile.

 

[Tez3]

I know a few who can 'do' very well but can't instruct or coach to save their lives. Like a lot of things it's down to the individual.

 

[Juany118]

Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach do.


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This is one of the oldest, and completely wrong, tropes I have ever seen. The teacher must be capable, or have been capable of performing the tasks quite well, otherwise they would be, quite simply, incapable of teaching.

The difference between the "teacher" and the "doer" is that the teacher has an additional talent, the ability to properly pass on their knowledge and experience to others. The main source for the line is Shaw's "Man and Superman." The line itself being associated, in the context of the play, with libertine Anarchist Revolutionaries, the source inside the play is referred to as Maxims for Revolutionists.

It's essentially a pretentious strawman of self validation for the young "Revolutionary" to simply dismiss the criticism of their beliefs by their elders.

 

[Juany118]

Exactly and that is why perspective students should ask questions, until they find the right answer and the right system. Regardless of whether or not it offends instructors or students.

Oh forgot. You can ask questions, even "hard" ones, without insulting people. Here's an example... First what I could have asked while I hunted for my current school but didn't because I have something called tact.

"Hi, I am a LEO with over 18 years of experience. I am looking to study new martial arts to not only broaden my experience but that, in and of themselves have practical application to my career and are also taught in a manner that is "combative" vs sport or self defense in nature as I must regrettably at times be on "offense"

I have watched videos and read forums where people say WC has no real practical use, that it is simply for people with no interest in "real fighting and that both WC and Kali training drills are useless in terms of learning real world fight dynamics. Is this true?"

Or I can just say...

"Hi, I am a LEO with over 18 years of experience. I am looking to study new martial arts to not only broaden my experience but that, in and of themselves have practical application to my career and are also taught in a manner that is "combative" vs sport or self defense in nature as I must regrettably at times be on "offense" "

The fact I asked about combatives and being street practical as well etc asks the questions in the 2nd paragraph as well. I get my answers and don't insult the receiver.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Oh forgot. You can ask questions, even "hard" ones, without insulting people. Here's an example... First what I could have asked while I hunted for my current school but didn't because I have something called tact.

"Hi, I am a LEO with over 18 years of experience. I am looking to study new martial arts to not only broaden my experience but that, in and of themselves have practical application to my career and are also taught in a manner that is "combative" vs sport or self defense in nature as I must regrettably at times be on "offense"

I have watched videos and read forums where people say WC has no real practical use, that it is simply for people with no interest in "real fighting and that both WC and Kali training drills are useless in terms of learning real world fight dynamics. Is this true?"

Or I can just say...

"Hi, I am a LEO with over 18 years of experience. I am looking to study new martial arts to not only broaden my experience but that, in and of themselves have practical application to my career and are also taught in a manner that is "combative" vs sport or self defense in nature as I must regrettably at times be on "offense" "

The fact I asked about combatives and being street practical as well etc asks the questions in the 2nd paragraph as well. I get my answers and don't insult the receiver.

On a side note, I think I now know what you mean by "combatives". You're talking about it including first-strike use, rather than always waiting for the attack - what you referred to as being "on offense". Am I closer?

 

[Juany118]

On a side note, I think I now know what you mean by "combatives". You're talking about it including first-strike use, rather than always waiting for the attack - what you referred to as being "on offense". Am I closer?

Yes, that is exactly it.