Promotion stanrdards (Split from Is it disrespectful to ask [...])

[Axiom]

Well, no. They don't usually "test" for the belts.

Right, they don't test them at all. Stick around and the belt is yours, although this time no test. I don't see how that's any better.

 

[CB Jones]

I haven't been this entertained since Mou Meng Foo or whatever was his name was posting on the board about his nameless style

 

[Steve]

Right, they don't test them at all. Stick around and the belt is yours, although this time no test. I don't see how that's any better.

You're mixing some things up in your brain. Instructors giving out belts when they feel like it is not the same as sticking around and the belt is yours. one of those is a subset of the other. Kind of like Chihuahuas and dogs.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Well, no. They don't usually "test" for the belts. If lax bothers you, the subjective nature of BJJ promotions will drive you absolutely bonkers.

Many people complain that it's too easy to get a black belt in TKD, and hence it means nothing.

At the UFC gym I attend, everyone in BJJ is a white belt, even though some of the guys have solid wrestling and look pretty good. So it's the opposite problem there - white belt means nothing.

 

[MA_Student]

He has been critical of himself but done nothing about it. Stated openly that the standard is too low, despite the fact that he's the one setting it.

Then leave go train with a decent instructor and don't bother with your participation award....sorry I mean black belt

 

[Axiom]

Sometimes you need an edge to cut through. At least I know you read my post to the end. Now think on it.

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If you want to attend a passed for certain grading, feel free to do so. Maybe then you will realise that I am not BSing here, and that´s straight up in the ranks. One of the highest ranking dudes in ITF Taekwondo still living.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When you can perform the black belt forms according to the book approximately. I would also add that there is room for special conciderations: Someone might be slightly less flexible than required but compensates with power, or vice versa.

You're assuming there are such things as "black belt forms" in all of those arts (and there aren't). There weren't for my NGA shodan, either, which is probably comparable to something between the second and third ones Tony listed.

 

[Axiom]

Then leave go train with a decent instructor and don't bother with your participation award....sorry I mean black belt

If I only care about grading rigor, then of course I would leave in a split second. There are other factors in deciding where to train - money, geographical convenience, etc

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Plenty of BJJ schools award guys belts for sticking around long enough. Exactly the same as in TaeKwondo.

Right, they don't test them at all. Stick around and the belt is yours, although this time no test. I don't see how that's any better.

I had coined a phrase in a thread a few years back which seems applicable.

"Sufficiently advanced Dunning-Kruger effect is indistinguishable from trolling and vice versa."

Just in case this is an honest misunderstanding on your part, I'll clarify.

BJJ (in most schools) doesn't really on formal tests because you are tested every day on the mat. Sticking around doesn't get you a belt. I have a friend who started BJJ around the same time I did 18 years ago. He's still a purple belt. I have a student who has been coming to class for around 5 years. He's still a white belt. You get the promotion when you show that you deserve it by consistently sparring/rolling at the expected level for your rank.

I'm motivated to start my own place and teach consistent TaeKwondo, without any betrayals of
giving in to other arts, which ALL ITF schools do today with their separate boxing instructions. If I wanted boxing, I would go to a legit boxing coach. Not be taught some half assed version.

Don't you need to actually learn TKD at a reasonably high level before you worry about starting your own school? Especially if you are wanting to establish higher standards than your current instructor?

 

[MA_Student]

Yeah and I'm confident I would pass elsewhere as well. But the point is that I'm assured of getting it where I am right now, and that's actually comforting because I could get nervous and do some stuff wrong, which some Shotokan examiners maybe would have punished and asked for a retest in a few months. There is no risk of that.here

You say you could pass elsewhere well go elsewhere and prove it but instead your happy to take the easy option. You get nervous? Suck it up and deal with it. I was freaking nervous for mine turned up on the night thought it was going to be with the normal 4 black belts turns out there were 7 extra who I never met you think I wasn't nervous course I was but I got on with it.

You know you do what you do man but if I was in your position I wouldn't be proud if I got it in your situation because I know it wasn't properly earned you got a participation award for turning up and paying him money. You're on here acting like you know everything but you've basically called your own club a mcdojo.

You say you could get it elsewhere how do you know? You may suck but your instructor won't tell you he'll just give you the belt anyway.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And I will also admit to a bit of hyperbole there.

I like the idea of a teacher simply, and without ceremony, handing a new belt to a student when the teacher feels the time is right, without a test. If there is a close student-teacher relationship, i think that approach is very possible and it removes the belt from the point of obsession because it is simply the teacher's decision. There is no work-up or other anticipation to the next "testing date" and whatnot. It just happens...when it happens.

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment in your closing two sentences, FC. It's why I decide when students test. They don't really know it's coming, nor precisely what they have to do for me to pull the trigger (because it's nothing exact). One day, I look at them and decide they are probably ready for the test, then I watch them a few classes to make sure they can do everything on the test. Then, I tell them they will be testing. Sometimes, I just tell them, "Grab a partner, and let's knock out part of your test." Other times, I might tell them something they need to work on, so I can test them ("You need to work on your Wheel Throw. That won't pass your test."). I made a conscious decision to reduce the focus on the next test, from what I sometimes saw around me in my training. I'm pretty ambivalent about belts, personally. I seriously considered getting rid of belt ranks, or just waiting until folks were ready to teach and handing them a BB (so only white/black). In the end, I reduced the number of ranks and changed the testing format to make the tests more in line with what I really want to test for.

 

[TrueJim]

For those who are annoyed to read someone say something like "I will get my black belt a year from now", are you also annoyed to hear a junior in college say "I will graduate with my bachelor's degree a year from now"?

If not, what is the difference? The latter case doesn't necessarily indicate any kind of low standards.

Good point.

In martial arts, the requirements and timeline for promotions are often more vague and most students are hobbyists who are more likely to drop out or slack off as other aspects of their life take priority.

We test for black-belt 3 times per year at our school. It's not an uncommon topic of conversation at (say) 3rd or 4th geup to start pondering which of the three tests you're going to try to slot yourself into. "Hmmm....based on my current trajectory, should I be aiming for the Winter test, or the Spring test? Hmmmm." My point is, we often see the opposite effect as well: somebody has decided to shoot for Winter, and because this is just a hobby, they do have some flexibility to redouble their efforts to attend more classes, to achieve they timeline goal that they set for themselves. When you let the instructors know what timeframe you're shooting for, they do their best to help as well...to get you on the right glide-slope to target the test date you're looking at.

So, agreeing with you...not sure why it's a bad thing to know that you'll be testing a year from now, and that if you stick to your plan you'll likely pass.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Plenty of BJJ schools award guys belts for sticking around long enough. Exactly the same as in TaeKwondo.

Have you ever actually been in a BJJ school? I didn't think so.
BJJ promotions are based on being tested every single day, as opposed to a formal 'test day.' Same way we do it in our MDK TKD school.

I'm motivated to start my own place and teach consistent TaeKwondo, without any betrayals of
giving in to other arts, which ALL ITF schools do today with their separate boxing instructions. If I wanted boxing, I would go to a legit boxing coach. Not be taught some half assed version.

I think this is a great idea. Just declare yourself a 24th Dan Soke in Axiom Ryu and open a school.
The fact that you don't actually appear to understand the little you've been taught shouldn't be considered any drawback at all.

 

[Axiom]

Don't you need to actually learn TKD at a reasonably high level before you worry about starting your own school? Especially if you are wanting to establish higher standards than your current instructor?

Yeah, I need few Dans of course. I know a place where I can get them (sorry couldn't resist!)

 

[MA_Student]

Plenty of BJJ schools award guys belts for sticking around long enough. Exactly the same as in TaeKwondo.

Do you train bjj?...don't answer I already know it. You don't get the belt for time you get it for being good. If you spend a year in Jiu Jitsu and you're tapping out purple belts as a white belt you'll get your blue pretty quick if you struggle against other white belts it'll take you longer. I know a guy who's been training for about 3 years (only a year less than you) and he's a white belt and he trains regularly

 

[Dirty Dog]

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment in your closing two sentences, FC. It's why I decide when students test. They don't really know it's coming, nor precisely what they have to do for me to pull the trigger (because it's nothing exact). One day, I look at them and decide they are probably ready for the test, then I watch them a few classes to make sure they can do everything on the test. Then, I tell them they will be testing. Sometimes, I just tell them, "Grab a partner, and let's knock out part of your test." Other times, I might tell them something they need to work on, so I can test them ("You need to work on your Wheel Throw. That won't pass your test."). I made a conscious decision to reduce the focus on the next test, from what I sometimes saw around me in my training. I'm pretty ambivalent about belts, personally. I seriously considered getting rid of belt ranks, or just waiting until folks were ready to teach and handing them a BB (so only white/black). In the end, I reduced the number of ranks and changed the testing format to make the tests more in line with what I really want to test for.

This is pretty much how we do testing, too.

 

[Axiom]

Have you ever actually been in a BJJ school? I didn't think so.
BJJ promotions are based on being tested every single day, as opposed to a formal 'test day.' Same way we do it in our MDK TKD school.

.

I have spoken to BJJ black belts and it's BS that all BJJ schools have a higher level of rigor than Karate, TKD etc. Some (not all): award belts for sticking around long enough.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Right, they don't test them at all. Stick around and the belt is yours, although this time no test. I don't see how that's any better.

You REALLY don't get this one, do you?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

You're assuming there are such things as "black belt forms" in all of those arts (and there aren't). There weren't for my NGA shodan, either, which is probably comparable to something between the second and third ones Tony listed.

I assumed that Axiom was just limiting his reply to defining what a TKD black belt should be in his school. It didn't even occur to me that he might think all arts have "black belt forms."

Just in case, I'll clarify. None of the arts I hold black belts in have "black belt forms". In fact, none of them have solo forms at all and only the first had paired forms.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You're mixing some things up in your brain. Instructors giving out belts when they feel like it is not the same as sticking around and the belt is yours. one of those is a subset of the other. Kind of like Chihuahuas and dogs.

I disagree. Chihuahuas aren't real dogs.