5 reasons TaeKwonDo as a system (not individual techniques) breaks down in a Muay Thai ring

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Axiom, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    I will outline why TaeKwondo, no matter contact level, or even rules, breaks down in a Muay Thai ring against a skilled Thaistylist. This despite the fact that all strikes in Muay Thai are also in TaeKwondo! My reasons may surprise you.

    1. Footwork. TKDoins are often renowned for their speedy and light footwork. However, being light on your feet in a Thaiboxing ring also carries the disadvantage of being easier to knock OFF your feet. Thaiboxers in comparision are more flat footed but rock solid to the ground. Getting put on your butt repeatedly will wear and tear on you. And this will happen even more easily with one foot up in the air kicking..

    2. The kicks. This ties in to the point above. TaeKwondo kicks are snappy and quick of the feet, but makes one liable to get pushed off balance in a rule set in which you can actually grabb and push down kicks. Stability will once again be a major question mark. This is demoralising in the long run and, the kicks you perfected in the dojang won't get you as many points (or KO'S) as you might have previously though..

    3. The hands. To break a skilled Muay Thai fighters defence in the ring you will need to soften him/her up with boxing, and/ or have a boxing defence to punches. Kicking alone will not get the job done against a legit guy(especially not concidering 1 and 2). TKD guys are not drilled in either offense or defence to the level required.

    4. No clinch. This can be modified in theory, but I will list it here given that most clubs neglect it.

    5. Lack of Continious fighting. TKD is geared towards one strike, one victory philosophy. Even WTF rules that allow full contact break after making contact. It will be an adjustment for a TKD fighter simply fight on and is definately puts him/her in a slight psychological disadvantage, compared to the thaifighter.

    Feel free to comment and disagree on any of the points!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
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  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ok first explain why a TKDist is in a Muay Thai ring in the first place. Why would they do that or vice versa?
    Muay Thai is a specialised sport, you train MT for it. If you think someone training TKD would get into a MT ring in a MT competition you are seriously deluded. Have you ever wonder why Sir Mo Farah hasn't raced against Usain Bolt in a sprint race or the Williams sisters haven't competed in squash or badminton?

    Your comparisons are completely meaningless. You cannot compare two things that aren't used against each other in the way you seem to think they are. I think you also lack the knowledge of either style to be able to compare them anyway.
     
  3. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    Why not? It's the same arsenal of techniques (Kicks, punches, knees, elbows, throws) only difference in how they are executed.
     
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  4. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Why not? simply because it is unrealistic. If you had asked how they would have got on in an open kick boxing competition then fair enough but the rules of MT preclude you using techniques other than MT so you cannot get a comparison. You may as well as how a Judoka would get on in a MT ring. Also if you wanted to take different styles and pit them against each other in a no rules or minimal rules bout all you need to do is look at the early UFCs though those results are skewed by commercial considerations.
     
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  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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  6. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    Open kickboxing competition, MT rules, MMA, doesn't affect my points in the slightest. Bare in mind that these are my observations after countless match-ups where patterns emerge, as well as my own experience in TaeKwonDo, and people who crossed over in my club and competed in Muay Thai. One guy who won bronze in a TKD world championship plainly stated: TKD kicks don't work against Thaifighters. And he competed in Muay Thai for 5 years

    However, this is assuming both practitioners are equally skilled. A highly skilled TKD fighter will destroy a lesser skilled Thaiguy. But that goes without saying.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
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  7. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    Since I have no information on how he trains his pupils, I would prefer to not comment. Do you agree about the points I raised?
     
  8. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    That's not true. You can throw TKD roundhouse kicks, sidekicks, spinning backicks etc and still get awarded points.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  9. MA_Student

    MA_Student Black Belt

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    Oh here we go again
     
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  10. MA_Student

    MA_Student Black Belt

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    So you're telling me that a Muay Thai fighter would win a Muay Thai match against a taekwondo fighter? WOW never knew that...

    And in a taekwondo competition a taekwondo guy will beat a Muay Thai guy.
     
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  11. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    The difference is that in a Muay Thai match, the TKD fighter is welcomed to perform any technique within the boundaries of kicking, punching, throwing, kneeing, elbowing. A Muay Thai fighter in a TKD rules set is not however allowed to do the same. Only TKD techniques are allowed there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  12. MA_Student

    MA_Student Black Belt

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    Wrong again. There are different classes to Muay Thai. A class, B class and C class. I can't remember the exact details but in certain ones elbows are completely not allowed and only knees to the body and I have seen a couple where knees and throws aren't allowed either
     
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  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Here is Burak hasan

    TKD.


    Muay thai or kickboxing or something.


    There is definitely the ability to cross over. I mean I accept they are different games.
     
  14. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    For god sake...you do taekwondo so basically your trashing your own style. You don't do Muay Thai so stop pretending you know about Muay Thai. You don't do boxing so stop pretending to know about boxing, you don't know Jiu Jitsu so stop pretending you know Jiu Jitsu.

    Basically shut up making up stupid assumptions and presenting them as fact when you actually have 0 idea what you're talking about
     
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  15. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    What difference does it make how restricted each class is? It's the same restriction for both sides.
     
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  16. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    [QUOTE="drop bear, post: 1862787, member: 32080"

    There is definitely the ability to cross over. I mean I accept they are different games.[/QUOTE]

    That was not the discussion. The discussion was using a TKD system - footwork, kicks, punches, knees, elbows, throws, against A Muay Thai system.
     
  17. MA_Student

    MA_Student Black Belt

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    Frankly this a pointless discussion as THEY'RE DIFFERENT SPORTS. It's like comparing how a basketball player would do in a football match. They're different games different rules, different objectives different everything
     
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  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    That was not the discussion. The discussion was using a TKD system - footwork, kicks, punches, knees, elbows, throws, against A Muay Thai system.[/QUOTE]


    Yeah but you are not going to not elbow and just let the other guy elbow. Cos that would be silly. You are allways going to use all the tools available.

    Otherwise there is an example of a TKD system working in kickboxing. Now it is a TKD system that has a fairly long history of producing good kickboxers. So I don't know if that validates the TKD or invalidates it.
     
  19. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    I have already cleared up that TKD fighters can do whatever technique they want, within a kick, box, knee, elbow, rule set. How ever you slice and dice it, there is no excuse if they fail but their own shortcommings. They are not restricted in anway more than the Thaidude
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Because the problems exist if you go in the opposite direction. If a Muay Thai fighter entered a TKD competition, he'd be at a disadvantage - he's trained for the wrong rules.

    Now, I think your point was more about them meeting in an MMA setting (think early MMA, where many people still brought mostly single-style skill sets).
     

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