Promotion stanrdards (Split from Is it disrespectful to ask [...])

Tony Dismukes said:
Just curious: how do you define the ability of a "black belt", as opposed to that of a green or blue belt?
At which of these stages did I have the abilities of a "real" black belt?
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When you can perform the black belt forms according to the book approximately. I would also add that there is room for special conciderations: Someone might be slightly less flexible than required but compensates with power, or vice versa.
 
Gnarlie said:
Axiom, do you think that if your instructor read what you have posted here, that you would still pass that test? How 'lax' do you think he is?


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Wanna give it a try? I don't see how his bruised ego ( if it comes to that) is relevant to the points I raised.
 
He has been critical of himself but done nothing about it. Stated openly that the standard is too low, despite the fact that he's the one setting it.
 
gpseymour said:
Ah! That's a different statement. There are schools where belts are not tested for - they are simply given when the student reaches the necessary skill level in whatever is being looked for. In my program, a test is failable, but that's unlikely to happen. I decide when a student tests (they can say "no", and can ask to test), and don't suggest they test until I'm reasonably certain they have easily met the requirements for the test. The test is merely a chance to make sure I didn't miss anything. The belts simply represent a minimum point in the syllabus and a minimum skill level.

There is very little concern over belts. Occasionally a person misplaces a belt, and they simply wear their old white belt until they find it. A couple of times, that person has been me.
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And I will also admit to a bit of hyperbole there. :)

I like the idea of a teacher simply, and without ceremony, handing a new belt to a student when the teacher feels the time is right, without a test. If there is a close student-teacher relationship, i think that approach is very possible and it removes the belt from the point of obsession because it is simply the teacher's decision. There is no work-up or other anticipation to the next "testing date" and whatnot. It just happens...when it happens.
 
Axiom said:
Wanna give it a try? I don't see how his bruised ego ( if it comes to that) is relevant to the points I raised.
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It's nothing to do with his ego, it is to do with yours. I don't care enough, what goes on in your training is between you and your instructor.

I just find it a shame that even with the collected wisdom of masters of multiple martial arts indicating that you might be in the wrong, you don't have the insight into yourself or the humility to consider and reflect.

So, you haven't answered my question: do you think you would pass / be allowed to test if he read this thread?

If not, why not? Clue: not his ego.

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Gnarlie said:
So, you haven't answered my question: do you think you would pass / be allowed to test if he read this thread?

If not, why not? Clue: not his ego.

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If you mean to tell me that I have violated one of the core principles of TKD, then I can assure you he has too. So has plenty of other instructors. Meaningless objection.
 
Axiom said:
When you can perform the black belt forms according to the book approximately. I would also add that there is room for special conciderations: Someone might be slightly less flexible than required but compensates with power, or vice versa.
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So it's based pretty much on remembering and executing some specified choreography? Oddly enough, that wasn't a requirement for any of my ranks. Maybe I'm still not a legit black belt! :(

The point is, what a black belt means is defined by the art and the instructor awarding the rank. Whatever your instructor is using as the basis for handing out promotions, that's what a legit black belt is for your school. If it means nothing other than "showed up for a certain length of time and paid his/her fees", than might as well just focus on training because the rank won't carry much meaning for you.
 
Tony Dismukes said:
So it's based pretty much on remembering and executing some specified choreography? Oddly enough, that wasn't a requirement for any of my ranks. Maybe I'm still not a legit black belt! :(

The point is, what a black belt means is defined by the art and the instructor awarding the rank. Whatever your instructor is using as the basis for handing out promotions, that's what a legit black belt is for your school. If it means nothing other than "showed up for a certain length of time and paid his/her fees", than might as well just focus on training because the rank won't carry much meaning for you.
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You asked me what I concider a black belt. A black belt can peform a black belt pattern according to the book. Now interestingly enough, I haven't spotted a single ITF guy executing a flying sidekick without the foot touching the floor before the technique is finished... So I would strip them all of their belts. They don't jump high enough.
 
Flying Crane said:
And I will also admit to a bit of hyperbole there. :)

I like the idea of a teacher simply, and without ceremony, handing a new belt to a student when the teacher feels the time is right, without a test. If there is a close student-teacher relationship, i think that approach is very possible and it removes the belt from the point of obsession because it is simply the teacher's decision. There is no work-up or other anticipation to the next "testing date" and whatnot. It just happens...when it happens.
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Ah, you like the BJJ model.
 
Axiom said:
Should I instead relay events that I was not present to? The boyfriend running his mouth in the background was incredibly rude, and passing the girl to black belt was a slap in the face to TaeKwonDo. Kinda like the icing on the cake.

From a president of the federation.
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Did Taekwondo slap him back? I think a 720 tornado kick would have been really cool to see.
 
Axiom said:
If you mean to tell me that I have violated one of the core principles of TKD, then I can assure you he has too. So has plenty of other instructors. Meaningless objection.
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I mean to encourage you to reflect, but I can see it's not happening. Just stop and think. Maybe sleep on it. You behaviour is not fitting.

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Steve said:
Did Taekwondo slap him back? I think a 720 tornado kick would have been really cool to see.
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I'm motivated to start my own place and teach consistent TaeKwondo, without any betrayals of
giving in to other arts, which ALL ITF schools do today with their separate boxing instructions. If I wanted boxing, I would go to a legit boxing coach. Not be taught some half assed version.
 
Axiom said:
Plenty of BJJ schools award guys belts for sticking around long enough. Exactly the same as in TaeKwondo.
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Well, no. They don't usually "test" for the belts. If lax bothers you, the subjective nature of BJJ promotions will drive you absolutely bonkers.
 
Gnarlie said:
I mean to encourage you to reflect, but I can see it's not happening. Just stop and think. Maybe sleep on it. You behaviour is not fitting.

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Coming from the guy with snarky remarks like: "Here's a clue".:rolleyes:
 
Axiom said:
Coming from the guy with snarky rermarks like: "Here's a clue".:rolleyes:
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Sometimes you need an edge to cut through. At least I know you read my post to the end. Now think on it.

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