Is it disrespectful to ask your (ITF) master to teach you the old way of TKD punching (Karate)

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Axiom, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I would love to be taught in detail the striking mechanics that originally were part of General Chois system for 25 years, until sine wave came along. That is Chang Hon/ITF striking pre 1980, which had the same punching mechanics as Shotokan (according to my instructor, although stances are higher in TKD).

    My question is: Would it be bad manners of me to ask the instructor who has been training since 1966 to teach me their original method of delivery, in depth? Is their Karate origin a sensitive subject to a dedicated master or how would he respond, you think?

    You might say do Karate instead.. Well no, I prefer TaeKwonDos stances and overall training. And don't want to join a KKW school at the present moment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  2. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    How would master Earl Weiss respond? Would you be willing to teach it if the student seeks to learn both ways of punching?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  3. JR 137

    JR 137 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,729
    Likes Received:
    798
    Trophy Points:
    318
    Location:
    In the dojo
    It would depend on how you asked and the teacher's personal beliefs. And if he/she was willing to teach it.

    This isn't much different than asking my CI to teach me a kata I already know, but teach it the way it was done before changes. Kata get changed, but most often the changes are subtle; things like hand position, where your eyes focus, perhaps a change like cat stance vs backward leaning stance, 45 degree turn instead of 90, etc. (although the last few aren't as subtle as the first few). My CI has been in our organization for about 45 years, so it's safe to say he's seen quite a few changes. Funny thing is he says whenever something gets changed, we usually go back to the original way within a few months anyway, so he really hates changing things unless his teacher explicitly tells him so.

    If I asked my CI outside of class and not in front of everyone in a way that implied I think the new way sucks and we should go back to the old way, I don't think he'd have a problem showing me. I think he'd have a problem with it if I was doing the old stuff during class while everyone else was doing the current stuff though. I don't think he'd care at all if I was practicing the old stuff on my own time and not getting everyone else to do it.

    I could see a teacher being hesitant about showing stuff that's been changed. He might think you'll do it in class and others (especially lower ranks) will copy you while thinking it's right, then he'd have to go around and undo your influence. I could also see him not wanting to teach it because he thinks the current way is better and why start to ingrain bad/less effective habits.

    Asked the right way to the right teacher, I don't think it would be a problem. Asked the wrong way and/or the wrong time, I'd foresee getting an answer of no.
     
  4. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I was thinking about asking after class when I'm a black belt, if he has less of a problem with it then since I've already been taught the fundamentals of the modern way of doing it. I have been training for 4 years and will recieve my black belt next year.
     
  5. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Maybe because he gives me the thumbs up whenever I sidekick a mitts?:cool: Has openly stated that I'm good, says I'm a great jumper. To hear that from a 9th dan who is a perfectionist is very gratefying. But my journey has of course only begun.
     
  6. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    i don't,see any disrespect in asking, well not to the instructor anyway, but my time on here has,shown me there are some odd people teaching ma, by that i don't mean my fellow posters, most of whom are quite normal.

    but in the way that some might take that as a disrespectful,comment to the,art as instructed and there to themselves as the instructor, only you know the culture of the place
     
  7. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yes, they do seem to carry themselves with greater pride than say a boxing coach, which is fine, but that's why I asked here.
     
  8. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Not that it is at all comparable in quality, but I wouldn't hesitate asking a boxing coach to teach me old school bare knuckled boxing mechanics.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    13,322
    Likes Received:
    2,717
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    Folks, get it back on topic... this isn't a thread about sidekicks or promotions...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    13,322
    Likes Received:
    2,717
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    You should be able to ask your instructor about any aspect of your training without anyone being offended. They may or may not provide you with the specific training you're asking for, depending on how they view the sine-wave vs non-sine-wave techniques. But discussing the differences should never offend anyone.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Archtkd

    Archtkd 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    965
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Have you mastered your teacher's methods before thinking asking him to teach you stuff that does not exist in his current curriculum? There's a reason your teacher is not teaching you what you think "was part of General Choi's system for 25 years."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    We have talked and he has demonstrated to me how they used to throw punches. But what I seek is private lessons in it.
     
  13. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I don't know, and I don't know if that's a condition either to be taught the old school way in private.
     
  14. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,668
    Likes Received:
    381
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Germany
    Here's a hint: you haven't, and it is.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,925
    Likes Received:
    2,597
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I wouldn't consider it rude, if it was asked the right way. In fact, I deal with this regularly. I changed some of the classical forms for my curriculum. Sometimes students ask me to show them the mainline versions, as I learned them. I always say yes, and try to point out the key differences, and what I like best about each approach.

    Others may have different thoughts, including your instructor.
     
  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,925
    Likes Received:
    2,597
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I object to that kind of name-calling!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,925
    Likes Received:
    2,597
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    DD, I've heard this "sine wave" mentioned before, in this context. What is it?
     
  18. Axiom

    Axiom Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Rejection of hip twist in favor of a down, up, down motion.
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,925
    Likes Received:
    2,597
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    How can you assert that it's a requirement for learning the older way? That's a decision for his instructor.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,668
    Likes Received:
    381
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Germany
    Maybe, but I think it unlikely that an instructor would be willing to teach something off-syllabus when the on-syllabus variant has not been mastered. It would be didactically poor practice.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page