Ninutsu Frank Dux!!!

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by KOGA-NINJA, Feb 8, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SAW67

    SAW67 White Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    The allegation Frank Dux lost his breach of contract suit with Van Damme by asserting he failed to prove up his martial art achievements is deceptive, as it is suggesting no substantive evidence existed. Flying in the face of this false allegation is a one hour Court TV documentary special and the Court TV televised trial, itself, having exposed Judge Kaddo; ruled FRANK DUX WAS NOT ALLOWED TO PRESENT HIS SUBSTANTIVE CREDENTIALS AND ACHEIVEMENTS BECAUSE VAN DAMME ATTORNEY MARTIN SINGER HAD SUCCESSFULLY CONVINCED THE JUDGE IT WOULD UNFAIRLY INFLUENCE THE JURY IN FAVOR OF FRANK DUX. [Frank Dux v Jean Claude Van Damme, Case No: SC 046395, Superior Court of California, Los Angeles County: http://lasuperiorcourt.org]
    Judge Kaddo’s ruling stems from Van Damme’s attorney Martin Singer having attempted to introduce into evidence Soldier of Fortune magazine, that had repeated the same libelous and slanderous allegations that appear in a highly inflammatory and unbalanced LA times Editorial and a SELF-PUBLISHED book, Stolen Valor, by B.G. Burkett. The LA Times EDITORIAL deceptively disguised to appear like an article (because you cannot force retraction of opinion) is written by Dux ex-wife’s family acquaintance, John Johnson, at a time Frank Dux and his ex-wife April were in the midst of divorce proceedings and Dux stood to testify at Irangate Contra Hearings. Stolen Valor is written by ultra right wing extremist Swift Boat supporter, B.G. Burkett. All three sources benefit by undermining Frank Dux credibility. Especially, regarding his government whistle-blowing as documented in The Secret Man, HarperCollins, 1996 (pg 64-65). B.G. Burkett, admittedly, never interviewed Dux. Reminiscent of the perception management tactics employed by Joseph McCArthy, B.G. Burkett’s slant (like SOF magazine’s Alexander McColl and Larry Baily) is unmistakably unbalanced with his subversive labeling, accusatory and deceptive reporting style. Just like, John Johnson, B.G. Burkett is selectively citing ONLY Frank Dux business competitors along with other personages and institutions with a motive to not tell the truth. Like Johnson, B.G. Burkett is also presenting as credible, fabricated evidence. Notably, B.G. Burkett making over 600 unsubstantiated false and inflammatory allegations, as documented in the Legal Analysis & Breakdown: Stolen Valor by B.G. Burkett/Gleena Whitley in Frank Dux vs. Robert Brown, Alexander McColl, Larry Baily and Soldier Of Fortune Magazine, Case No: BC198883, Superior Court OF California, Los Angeles County [http://www.duxryu.8m.com/controversy.html] Mainstream journalists readily expose B.G. Burkett unethical pattern of behavior is one of engaging in and supporting misinformation for political ends, directly linked to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and Soldier Of Fortune magazine Larry Baily. The Lubbock Avalanche-Journal (March 20, 2005) exposed the swift boat lies and identifies Larry Baily as one of the ministers of misinformation

    John Kerry pointed out on Imus, September 15, 2004 - his group to John McCain called him "The Manchurian Candidate". They spread rumors that he had a black child when they were down in South Carolina, that his wife was a drug addict. They actually challenged the quality of his service while he was a prisoner of war. They challenged his character. They lied about him again and again. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6009011]
    B.G. Burkett deceptively features in his book Stolen Valor a photo of Frank Dux in a military uniform, accompanied by an unsubstantiated and false allegation Dux is part of a public speakers tour profiteering as a phony Vietnam veteran. In actuality, Dux book agent Joel Gotler under oath confirms at the so called time in question Dux has never been part of any Vietnam veteran speaker tour but a short lived sponsored book tour, arranged by HarperCollins. The alleged incriminating photo is in actuality taken of Frank Dux (by his vindictive ex-wife then girlfriend) while still in costume, on his way to attending his college student film class wrap party, a decade earlier. [www.martialarts.jameshom.com & Declaration of Jeffrey Stromph, Deposition of Joel Gotler, Frank Dux v Jean Claude Van Damme, Case No: SC 046395, Superior Court of California, Los Angeles County; Frank Dux vs. Robert Brown, Alexander McColl, Larry Baily and Soldier Of Fortune Magazine, Case No: BC198883, Superior Court OF California, Los Angeles County: http://lasuperiorcourt.org].
    Likewise, B.G. Burkett followed Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in issuing a series of equally false allegations against presidential candidate John Kerry's heroic military record; Kerry awarded the Purple Heart and Silver Star. Fox channels’ Hannity and Colmes, August 26, 2004 edition, exposed B.G. Burkett underhandedly attempted to diminish and link Kerry's post-Vietnam War service to Jane Fonda by doctoring a photo by which to leave yet another false impression, just like B.G. Burkett did with Dux. Making it appear Kerry was standing alongside Jane Fonda, while B.G. Burkett is making the unsubstantiated and false allegation Kerry had called his fellow Vietnam Veterans rapists and murderers and Kerry had committed war crime atrocities of killing innocent women and children. [http://mediamatters.org/items/200408300005?f=s_search]
    Subsequent to Van Damme’s counsel presenting in his Motion for Dismissal these three self serving sources, Soldier of Fortune Magazine, The LA Times Editorial And Stolen Valor as credible only to have backpedaled with the unveiling of the verified facts in a court of law, Frank Dux legal counsel Steven Kramer filed a libel and slander suit against SOF magazine, Robert Brown, Alexander McColl, Larry Baily. Thereby, resulting in publicly exposing all of these sources of being interconnected and misleadingly deceptive and fraudulent - just as in the case of John Kerry, John McCain, or anyone else diametrically opposed to their politically extremist right wing agenda. [Frank Dux v Jean Claude Van Damme, Case No: SC 046395, Superior Court of California, Los Angeles County & Frank Dux vs. Robert Brown, Alexander McColl, Larry Baily and Soldier Of Fortune Magazine, Case No: BC198883, Superior Court Of California, Los Angeles County: http://lasuperiorcourt.org].

    Of course, with Dux being denied the opportunity to present evidence regarding his substantive credentials and achievements this adversely affected the outcome of his case with Van Damme. Nonetheless, this is a false and misleading conclusion this is why he lost his case with Van Damme.

    Point Of View magazine that covered the entire Dux v. Van Damme trial points out amongst other unprecedented acts of favoritism (like the judge allowed Van Damme’s witnesses to sit in the courtroom to hear each other testify whereas Dux witnesses are sequestered), columnists Jennie and Terrie Frankel write:

    "The judge karate kicked Dux below the belt with a series of unprecedented rulings that precluded the testimony of any rebuttal witnesses, any impeachment witnesses and all actual eyewitnesses to the deal. Kramer (Dux's attorney) argued these witnesses were critical to his case, but to no avail."[www.martialarts.jameshom.com ]
     
  2. TimoS

    TimoS Master of Arts

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,607
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland

    Point of view magazine? Googled it and found this:
    http://www.jnjgateway.com/home.jhtm...Id=fc0de00100000779&parentId=fc0de00100000779
    So, a nurse magazine covers the trial of an martial arts "expert"? Why? Of what interest is it to their readers? And even if it did, they hardly sound like experts on legal matters to me :D

    Or maybe it's this one http://www.docorg.ca/pov_magazine.html
    Again, hardly legal experts, I would say
     
  3. ElfTengu

    ElfTengu Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    South Coast England, UK
    Not to mention it is wildly off topic.

    Other than definitively not being a ninja, or having any genuine qualifications in ninjutsu, I REALLY don't care what else Dux claims to be, and can't see what the point was of the post before last.

    Van Damme is a ballet dancer with a bit of martial arts experience. He is hardly Dolph Lundgren, who at least won genuine European full contact tournaments, even if his acting skills are on a par with Jean Claude's.

    As for the Dux Damme case, there is nothing funnier than two Hollywood obsessed egocentrics trying to sue each other.

    At least Van Damme has never played a ninja, we must be thankful for that.
     
  4. ElfTengu

    ElfTengu Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    South Coast England, UK
    p.s. ooh look, I've gone up to yellow belt. I wish my real rank had been this easy to attain!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    There was a hollywood magazine called POV. It's not around now, but I found a couple of articles online. I have yet to find the one in question, however. Edward Sussman was the editor of the magazine in question.
     
  6. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    As far as what saw posted, I'd say it's interesting for sure and it gives me more to reasearch, but it was a bit of a non-sequitor. Frank dux could have been a real spy and a real hero, but still a fake ninja. The two are not interdependant. So proving really was an intelligence agent would not prove he was a ninja. In his defense, however, He's not the first to go off topic. Other people brought up fake military decorations, fake military history, etc.

    But I digress.

    The point of contention is whether his lineage is Koga Yamabushi Ninjutsu. In my oppinion, the real bone of contention is whether or not Koga Ninjutsu died with Fujita Seiko. Even if Seiko himself says he was the last Koga ninja, which I haven't seen him say, that would not necessarily be the final word.

    Now ElfTengu says makes a good point. Not sneaky=not ninjitsu. I feel I should have clarified: I study FASST which is really a training method (Frank uses the term technology) instead of a system. So I can't even claim I've done Dux-Ryu ninjutsu. My best friend, however, was trained in Dux-ryu Ninjutsu. He is a clandestine fighter. What he's shown me looks more like "X-kan" than it looks like Kempo.

    Would Dux-ryu Ninjutsu do for me what FASST has done? Don't know. But it's not like he hides the fact that Ninjutsu is not the only art he's studied.
     
  7. sky

    sky White Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I was one of those eyewitnesses to the Dux and Van Damme transaction and was scheduled to appear in the Dux v. Van Damme trial. I would have provided testimony that proved Van Damme breached his contract to Dux but the judge not only arbitrarily prevented me from testifying but ended the trial on that same day I was to be sworn in, when the trial was scheduled to continue for three more weeks!
    The trial was so brazenly biased in favor of Jean Claude Van Damme that this also included Court TV’s coverage, Court TV's Online Bryan Lavietes lunching with Van Damme and his legal counsel and entourage. Whenever Dux side was making headway, the telecast would switch to cover another story.
    For example, missing from Court TV's Online blog are substantial material facts. For instance, there is no mention of the pivotal testimony of Jose Bermudez or the revelation Richard Alexander was NOT Dux friend for 20 years (contradicting what Court TV's Online Bryan Lavietes falsely reports on the site) nor was Richard Alexander who he said he was. No mention of cross examination appears on Court TV's Online, that reveals Van Damme’s star witness Richard Alexander is a felon, named Richard Shimer, or that Kramer exposed Van Damme committed 28 separate counts of perjury, etc. The felon discredited to the point Judge Kaddo would not allow Kramer to continue his cross examination, raising eyebrows. [A recidivist, Richard Alexander aka Richard Shimer’s last booking number is 2007070730 and his Ontario county criminal history number is 39966]
    I suspect the producers of Court TV took notice of Kramer’s closing arguments and were compelled to have produced a one (1) hour documentary special to protect their credibility, if not shield themselves from civil liability the result of the unfair and unbalanced reporting of Van Damme’s associate, Court TV's Online Bryan Lavietes. I surmise this atmosphere of transparent bias might explain how afterwards, the trial Judge was removed from holding his court in LA Superior Court, in LA, and transferred to holding it in the ghetto, in Compton.
    The reason Dux did not prevail is obvious. It had nothing to do with his inability but his being denied his right to present his bona fides and his supporting evidence, in court, where and when it mattered!
    If you want to know the real truth about Frank Dux and how I have known him for well over twenty years, visit www.fasstduxryu.com and follow the link to my blog:
    http://fasst.blogspot.com
     
  8. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    Also, when it comes to training, I don't care what a guy's lineage is. but when we're talking about history, I don't think he's lying.

    Besides, he's not the only ninja (if he is one) that has a little difficulty proving the existence of his instructor.

    Isn't Hatsumi still trying to prove that Toda Shinryuken existed?
     
  9. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    206
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Not insofar as I know... It's fairly well established that he existed, I know there were some questions as to whether Takamatsu had trained with him or was born after his death... but these arguments are generally from the same group of people who claim Hatsumi didnt train with Takamatsu, and yet there is filmed footage of them, which, call me wacky... is proof. And even so, In my mind there is a difference between proving the guy who trained you existed and some guy generations back.

    Its like the difference between Me saying "My father was a pirate and I learned Pirate'n from him" and you Saying "I'm a decendant from William Kidd"...

    If you are missing a step in your lineage but have logical evidence to connect you, but I cant even prove who my daddy was... well... Yeah. Theres a HUGE difference.

    But whatever man. I'm glad you are happy with your version of Ninja history and all. I'll stick to the documented evidence, you stick to the rumors and secrets a guy tells you. At the end of the day it makes about as much difference as the guy claiming his Taekwondo School is teaching "Jedi Martial Arts" in another area of the forum... *shrug*

    Go Go Power Ranger!
     
  10. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    Please remember that I am still developing my version of ninja history. I'm still deciding what to believe. And when it comes to history, I'm not going to stick to black and white because history is not cut and dry. But while I'm still researching, I have no problem with training with a guy who has done a lot for my fighting (and the cost was yard work once a week).

    What I've read says that Toda was Takamatsu's instructor and Takamatsu was Hatsumi's. So it wouldn't be some guy generations back.

    So essentially, if I were a Dux-Ryu Ninjutsu instructor, like Sky, then I would have a vested interest in proving the existance of my instructor's instructor. Just like Hatsumi is doing (again, from what I've read).

    And quite frankly, what consists as documented history, I have no problem being skeptical about, for reasons stated earlier. Documented history is what some guy told another guy in written form.
     
  11. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    206
    Trophy Points:
    173
    If you say so.
     
  12. ElfTengu

    ElfTengu Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    South Coast England, UK
    What you have to bear in mind is that Hatsumi Soke does not care what people think. He does not feel the need to prove anything to curious foreigners on the internet. 'Someone' 'found' Toda Soke's grave recently and it appears that it was never lost, it's just that Hatsumi Soke doesn't want ninja tourists traipsing all round it like what happened with Takamatsu Sensei's grave which upset his widow. We are now requested not to go there and Soke rarely makes such a definitive statement.

    Also, Toda Soke was not only Takamatsu Soke's teacher, he was his grandfather, and as far as I know, everyone has two grandfathers, unless their parents are siblings, so he must have existed, as a grandfather at least.

    It does get suggested every now and again but if people are really bothered about Hatsumi Soke's authenticity they should go and see him.

    It's not like he is some American who mysteriously siddenly airs his own style of ninjutsu coincidentally slap bang in the middle of the ninja boom, and at least Hatsumi Sensei or his own teacher did not have the disrespect or egotism to rename their arts or system after themselves.

    The one bonus is that the same thing is less likely to happen with the MMA boom because you have to put your money where your mouth is in MMA.
     
  13. JadecloudAlchemist

    JadecloudAlchemist Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Miami,Florida
    There is no such thing as a title Koga Yamabushi.

    Also just because a sect practices Shugendo does not mean they practice Ninjutsu. It is highly unlikely anyone who practices within the Shugendo sects practices any martial art let alone Ninjutsu. It is highly unlikely that Any Ninjutsu was taught to some foreigner by those in the sect.
     
  14. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    Again, I'm a newb. What's shugendo?
     
  15. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    Look, man, I'm researching. If you don't like what I ask or bring up, just don't respond. Shooting me down doesn't help me discover anything. I'm not a Frank Dux Zombie. I'm just a guy with a high level of curiosity.

    Yes I train with Frank. Big deal.

    When I was in high school dating a Mormon I went to their seminary. I'm not a mormon, and never will I be, and I fully understand why, because I heard things I just can't go with, and I heard it from the source.

    Here's the fun thing: Frank encourages me to do my research. I've asked him far more uncomfortable questions than I've asked you. Never once has he even hinted that I should stop asking questions even about his personal life, even if the question is not comfortable for him.

    You've discouraged questioning, because you know all the answers.

    Where I'm different from you and from Frank is I don't know anything and I'm skeptical of all of you and I don't hide the fact.

    This is also why I keep the history separate from the training itself. Is it still possible in this day and age to research critically both sides of a story? Heck, ask Sky. I've told him the same thing.

    So again, if you're not interested in helping me, don't respond. The passive agressive response is passe and useless.
     
  16. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    Thanks for your response, I always find your posts helpful. I didn't know Toda was Takamatsu's grandfather. This is good information.

    One thing I'll say however is I don't necessarily think it's disrespectful or egotistical to name an art after yourself. Take Ed Parker, for example. Everyone I've ever met who trained under him thinks the world of him. He wasn't known to have a big ego. He named his art Ed Parker's American Kenpo because it had changed significantly from what he'd learned in Hawaii.

    There are many people throught history who have created a style and named it after themselves. Usually it's because they incorporate other knowledge into the style. Some give it their name, and some do not. Why automatically assume ego?

    Thing is I've met the guy and he really doesn't seem very egotistical. Maybe he was in the eighties. I wouldn't know, I didn't know him back then. But the people that know him well I don't normally hear talk bad about him.
     
  17. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Messages:
    27,758
    Likes Received:
    1,514
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Josh people are just trying to help you in your discovery process.
    Many people come on here asking about Frank Dux and have to
    research to find out if they wish to believe his stories. Your doing
    the same so good luck! [​IMG]
     
  18. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    Now here's something interesting I found. Frank told me to look up the Kempeitai. I had never heard of it before so I googled it and found out it's a branch of the Japanese military that did counter-intelligence, psy-ops, POW stuff, and provision of "comfort" women and "comfort" houses.

    There's a book I found called White Terror: Cossack Warlords of the Transiberian by Jamie Bisher.

    It lists one Colonel Tanaka Kushinige as being a member of the Kempeitai, and some of the things that he was involved in when it came to the russians. What's interesting about this was it is the first link I've ever found that did not direct me back to one of the FASST/Dux-Ryu sites.

    Here are the things I'll have to check, still:

    1. The history of Jamie Bisher. Is he credible? Does he link back to Frank in any substantive way?

    If there's any connection to Frank than the question of bias must be asked, whether or not he's a real historian. Is he generally respected as an expert in his own field? If the guy's legit, and has no connection to Frank Dux, than this would be the first time I've seen a link from an outside source.

    2. Is this the same Kushinige Tanaka?

    That would of course be important. There could have been more than one Tanaka Kushinige in history. What makes this interesting is the guy is cited as a spy in the Kempeitei. Now what Frank has told me is that Tanaka was BRITISH intelligence as well. If this Tanaka was the same Tanaka Frank calls his instructor, he would have had to been at some point in his life a member of each intelligence service. This is not hard to imagine, but even if something can add up logically, it still may not be true in reality.

    3. Did this Tanaka know Koga Ninjutsu?

    Obviously a deal breaker. He could have been a real spy and really trained Frank Dux, and it STILL may not have been Koga and it STILL may not have been ninjutsu (this, by the way is something Frank doesn't question, but it's something I will).

    I have no idea when Tanaka was born or died. but the book I found shows that this Tanaka was Kempeitai in 1919, and the early twenties. From this I can make one of two conclusions: He may have been trained by Seiko OR the Yamabushi.

    Neither of those would necessarily be proof. Seiko trained a lot of people, and in his own writings he claimed never to have trained anyone in Ninjutsu. He may be lying or telling a truth, but i can't think of a way to verify it.

    From what I've seen, the Yamabushi trained Seiko because essentially he refused to leave them alone, even though he was not one of them.

    Why not another? And would Seiko necessarily know about him?

    This of course would need more than speculation. It could have occurred, but did it?

    4. Did this Tanaka know and train Frank Dux?

    The reason i bring this up is because he could have been THE Kushinige Tanaka, could have been a spy in the requisite agencies, and could even have been a true Koga Ninja. He was a spy in 1919. How old was if and when he met Frank? Frank is in his early fifties. He'd have to have been just a kid when he learned.

    Granted, that's exactly what Frank claims.

    5. Is this account corroborated?

    If Kushinige Tanaka was in two countries (three, counting russia), there would be documentation of it. Now if he was a spy, maybe these records are harder to get at. only further research will see.

    Obviously these 5 questions I have not answered. It took a month of research just to get to this point. But that's why I like history. It's a wonderful puzzle.

    I'm just scratching the surface.

    Plus the way i see it, even if I find it wasn't the same tanaka, I'll have a good education on the kempeitai, russian intelligence, British intelligence, and a couple of other topics.


    I haven't come with any real conclusions, because conclusions get in the way of research. But I sure am having fun!
     
  19. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    206
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Nah man, see here's the thing... YOU keep saying, in a nutshell...

    "I don't know anything, I'm trying to learn, but I don't care what the evidence from multiple sources say, I have no reason to disbelieve Frank. Everyone else is just giving "their version" of the history, and it's probably wrong."

    So... I say... "if you say so". I don't care if you believe or not. I'm not falling for it, but you can enjoy whatever version of history you wanna believe. If you wanna believe that magic Tengu demons created the art in a dream, or secret chinese monks, or some guy who's movements are very Korean in nature claiming its a Japanese art, or some anonymous teacher on a secret mountain in japan that can never be reached, or that ninja never existed, or any other of the variety of the unvireifed/unverifiable stories I have heard ... thats fine with me. I don't care. I pointed out what the most widely accepted history from numerous sources not all connected said, if you choose to ignore all that more power to you.
     
  20. JadecloudAlchemist

    JadecloudAlchemist Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Miami,Florida
    Shugendo:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shugendo

    From the accounts I have read concerning the Yamabushi into modern era
    I can not find any info concerning training in any Ninjutsu or any complete martial art. The only martial art aspect may be that used in ritual acts such as Kagura.123
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
bujinkan ninjutsu frank dux
,
bujinkan think of frank dux
,
don rearic ju jitsu
,
dux jutsu
,

dux ryu

,
dux ryu vs bujinkan
,
frank dux is a liar
,
frank dux teaching koga yamabushi ninjutsu in english
,
fraud frank dux
,
iga ryu frank dux
,
juan hombre koga ryu ninjutsu
,
kunishige tanaka ninjutsu
,
mr dux martial arts
,
was frank dux apart of the bujinkan