Ninutsu Frank Dux!!!

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by KOGA-NINJA, Feb 8, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jay Bell

    Jay Bell Master Black Belt

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Where it's real hot..
    Here is a thread that was written by M.C. Busman back in 1999 concerning the legitamacy of Frank Dux:


     
  2. Jay Bell

    Jay Bell Master Black Belt

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Where it's real hot..
  3. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

    • Founding Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2001
    Messages:
    4,526
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Florida
    Lots of damning info about Dux. Thanks, Jay.

    I don't know about this 'American Ninjitsu', though...

    Cthulhu
     
  4. KumaSan

    KumaSan Blue Belt

    • Founding Member
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2001
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    California
    Personally (and this is just a pet peeve), I'm wary of anything claiming Japanese lineage and using the romanization of -jitsu. Speaks to me of a fundamental lack of understanding of the culture and language. BJJ is a notable exception, and I'm told that -jitsu is an acceptable phonetic expression in Europe, but I still don't like it.
     
  5. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

    • Founding Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2001
    Messages:
    4,526
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Florida
    I was the same way, until I found out that it is possible to use the romanization of '-jitsu' as long as the character for 'jitsu' (truth) is used.

    So, if they translate their system as the 'art of so-and-so', but spell it with '-jitsu' rather than '-jutsu', I'd say there was a misunderstanding of the language present.

    Cthulhu
     
  6. KumaSan

    KumaSan Blue Belt

    • Founding Member
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2001
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    California
    Good point, and I have seen this, but they are few and far between. I have no problem with people messing this up if they don't know any better (used to do it all the time), but if they are claiming to speak authoritatively for some style or other (usually super-secret hidden in a cave for the last bajillion years), then they should at least know the difference between -jutsu and -jitsu.
     
  7. ThuNder_FoOt

    ThuNder_FoOt Guest

    Thanks for the info everyone. I didn't know that much about Frank Dux, except for van Damme's movie on kickboxer. This kinda had me baffled... why does a movie titled kickboxer, star a ninjitsu master? (is it ninjitsu or ninjutsu??)

    Kinda weird to me. Why is Van Damme sueing Dux anyways?

    I don't know... it seems as though my quest for a good ninpo school will be a long one. It sounds like there are many frauds out here in the U.S. I mean with fakes like Ashida Kim and Frank Dux... i don't know what I'll do. What does everyone think about Tew-ryu? I'm not sure if its true ninpo.

    One more thing... what's the difference between ninpo and ninjistu/ninjutsu?? Sorry for the naivety.
     
  8. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

    • Founding Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2001
    Messages:
    4,526
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Florida
    Well, I think the movie you're actually referring to is Bloodsport. Either way, they're both crappy flicks.



    I thought Tew-ryu was created by someone who broke away from Dux-ryu. Unless something else was added or significantly changed, you'd still be practicing fake ninjutsu.

    Cthulhu
     
  9. Jay Bell

    Jay Bell Master Black Belt

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Where it's real hot..
    It's Ninjutsu. Any martial art based discription is "-jutsu".

    I think there's some Court TV documents on their website that explain a lot of the situation...I haven't read it in some time though.

    Ninpo is considered the higher order of ninjutsu. Somewhat of taking Ninjutsu beyond physical techniques.


    Don't ever apologize for trying to expand your knowledge.

    If you check out Winjutsu , there is a list of Bujinkan schools in the Yellow Pages.
     
  10. Shinzu

    Shinzu Guest

    i really hate when MA's lie about their knowledge and experience. that really stinks. he's the vanilla ice of martial arts:rofl:
     
  11. Ronin

    Ronin Guest

    Sadly if it smells it stinks! Imagine how many smaller scale martial artists out there are frauds. No wonder there is such a huge gap between a good martial artist and a bad one. Their Instructor doesnt know jack!!
     
  12. ThuNder_FoOt

    ThuNder_FoOt Guest

    It seems though Cthulhu was correct in the fashion that Tew-ryu is a break away from Dux-ryu. Geez, I'm not sure what I was being told about a trip to the mountains for ninja stealth training. The way it was described was really disturbing. Is this typical training regime?

    Thank you to Jay Bell on the information on the Bujinkan. Now this is true ninjutsu? I mean who is to say? I just hope I'm not receiving a biased opinion from Bujinkan students... because Dux-ryu students could claim the same thing, right? I guess I must begin my quest for information before I can begin my quest for a school.:asian:
     
  13. John Bridges

    John Bridges Guest

    Well I've trained in the Bujinkan for a few years now and yeah some of us can be biased, but thats the same in any art, if looking for a school of ninjutsu just make sure you do your homework and trust your gut feeling. You'll know whats right and whats a crock. :asian:
     
  14. Jay Bell

    Jay Bell Master Black Belt

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Where it's real hot..
    Simply put....history
     
  15. Fitolandia

    Fitolandia Guest

    Amen :)


    Hi to everybody
     
  16. kenmpoka

    kenmpoka Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I met this guy (Frank Dux) personnally, and have had long conversations with him, and on a few occasions a few beers as well. "if you lie long enough, you'd believe it yourself". He is a typical hollywood made up guy, with some martial arts knowledge picked up from here and there. He surrounds himself with legit Martial artists such as Sifu Wong and others to gain credibility. He was smart enough to jump on the ninja band wagon in the 80's and make a buck or two. For a secret russian/Cia double agent , he sure does not speak a word of russian or any other languages except english. A few years back, he had a brain tumor removed which has effected his speech and sight. He is actually a very mellow and naive guy. He is currently working on another octagon type fighting tournament.
     
  17. Scooter

    Scooter Guest

    As far as Dux goes, I think his matial exploits have been explained (or exposed) on here well...as far as his "military" record, that can be verified or disproved easily due to the recent FOI laws in effect (that weren't when he initially made the claims).

    As far as Sensei Hoshino goes....do your homework! His real name isn't Hoshino (at least not originally). He changed it to such years back, and no, he's not even Japanese.
     
  18. heretic888

    heretic888 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,723
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    108
    I dunno guys, I'm 'a kinda scared to talk about Dux.

    He might Real Ultimate Fight me to death, you know. :rolleyes:

    Anyways....

    Considering Masaaki Hatsumi is the Soke of the ONLY remaining Ninjutsu ryu, and the majority of the other ryuha practiced in the Bujinkan are associated with the Iga ninja, I am inclined to disagree.

    Actually, Ninpo is taught in almost all of the Bujinkan ryuha (from what I've been told anyway). And most of the schools are closely tied with the Iga ninja to begin with (for example: Tozawa Hakuunsai, 'founder' of Gyokko-ryu Shitojutsu, was also a student of Hakuun-ryu ninjutsu and an Iga-ryu 'jonin' [Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu and Koto-ryu Koppojutsu come from Gyokko-ryu Shitojutsu]. Izumo Kanja Yoshiteru, 'founder' of both Kukishinden-ryu Happo Hikenjutsu and Shinden Fudo-ryu Dakentaijutsu, was also a student of Hakuun-ryu Ninjutsu and the family Izumo was one of the forty five families of the Iga-ryu).

    Actually, the only Bujinkan ryuha that I know of that teach 'jujutsu' (or rather, 'jutaijutsu') are Kukishinden-ryu, Shinden Fudo-ryu, and Takagi Yoshin-ryu. And, with the possible exception of Takagi Yoshin-ryu, those schools all have 'ninja ties' to one degree or another.

    That depends on what you mean by 'ninjutsu'. Context is everything, my friend.

    If you mean 'the arts of stealth, espionage, stealing-in, and bein' sneaky', then yes, only a few ryuha in the Bujinkan teach that definition of 'ninjutsu' (four, to be exact).

    If you mean 'the martial arts developed and used by the ninja culture in ancient Japan', then almost all the ryuha in the Bujinkan are a form of 'ninjutsu' (most of them were historically part of the collective known as 'Iga-ryu ninjutsu').

    Laterz.
     
  19. suzatru

    suzatru White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hiranaka Hoshino's student Steven Barlaam is not English...he's Italian.
     
  20. bydand

    bydand Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,723
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    West Michigan
    Dude, you jump onto a thread that has been idle for over 4 years. Go over to the meet and greet section and introduce yourself at least. Don't know who dinged you for this post but it isn't very fair for making a statement.123
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
bujinkan ninjutsu frank dux
,
bujinkan think of frank dux
,
don rearic ju jitsu
,
dux jutsu
,

dux ryu

,
dux ryu vs bujinkan
,
frank dux is a liar
,
frank dux teaching koga yamabushi ninjutsu in english
,
fraud frank dux
,
iga ryu frank dux
,
juan hombre koga ryu ninjutsu
,
kunishige tanaka ninjutsu
,
mr dux martial arts
,
was frank dux apart of the bujinkan