Ninutsu Frank Dux!!!

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by KOGA-NINJA, Feb 8, 2002.

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  1. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

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    J5smoothe, I appreciate that. Obviosly I can't claim neutrality anymore, though it's how I started. I'm glad there's one person who's still neutral and interested. A neutral guy is a better BS test than a person for or against. You'll be able to point out holes in my findings than I can now, and much better than someone who's already made their mind up. I will report my findings as I discover them.
     
  2. ElfTengu

    ElfTengu Blue Belt

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    I think Josh, that you will need to come up with a lot more to persuade us Takamatsuden ninjutsu/taijutsu practitioners that one American bloke has a genuine comparable system to ours.

    We have three Japanese Grandmasters (one for each Kan), we have their predecessor Takamatsu Sensei. We have Japanese masters in Japan running dojo under at least two of these grandmasters. We have training events in Japan, we have roots in Japan even if these roots were eventually proved to go back no further than Takamatsu Sensei (and he must have been taught martial arts by someone Japanese so there is at least one more generation going back into the 1800s at least for sure).

    We have Japanese people who understand the cultural aspects of our art far more than someone who has hardly even visited the country if at all and authenticity can only come from that cultural connection.

    For something to be called ninjutsu it must be pure ninjutsu handed down intact from generation to generation.

    If Mr Dux claimed to teach pure Koga Ryu ninjutsu then that would be one thing.

    But naming his style Dux Ryu suggests that he has added other material to it. And if the other material is not pure ninjutsu then neither is the overall art.

    Even the Bujinkan and other Kans recognise that their systems are not pure ninjutsu which is partly why the Bujinkan uses the term Budo taijutsu. Yes it is marketed as ninjutsu but the student learns very early on that the Bujinkan is about more than ninjutsu.

    And it is called the Bujinkan, not Hatsumi Ryu, Takamatsu Ryu, Toda Ryu or Ishitani ryu. Even Stephen Hayes has not called his new composite art
    Hayes Ryu Ninjutsu he has called it Toshindo.

    Even American Kempo has authentic roots and links back to genuine Oriental martial arts. It was not invented from scratch in America with mysterious long dead benefactors.

    Can you let us know the claimed lineage of Dux Ryu as far as possible? I have many contact in Japan with far more access to Japanese resources than you or I have so they should be able to trace all of the people involved, from military and public records etc.
     
  3. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

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    I'll see what I can do.
     
  4. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

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    I've asked Frank and I'm waiting to hear back from him, but I know his wepsite claims the tanaka clan broke off of the vagyu school. Still seeing what I can find.
     
  5. Ninja Please

    Ninja Please White Belt

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    I had to register for this forum. This is the most intertaning discusion that i have ever read on any martial art forum.

    I for one, would love for you to keep researching Dux and the Koga traditions of Ninjutsu. I have been enterested in this lineage of Ninjutsu for 20 plus years. And, to have some guy's in Japan digging up record, WOW!

    I will even try to find out what I can, but I have looked into Koga Ryu for awhile now and have never found much. I have been studying Ninja arts for over 20 years but I have never seen any reason to join any one style as the techniques are so simplistic anyone could perform them.

    Great stuff.
     
  6. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome; why don't you take a moment to stop by the Meet & Greet and introduce yourself?
     
  7. tshadowchaser

    tshadowchaser Sr. Grandmaster

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    Nina Please may I ask how you are able to study the techniques and applications of the various things done in Ninjitsu if you have never joined any organization that teaches them
     
  8. vigilante

    vigilante White Belt

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    Hey everyone!

    Frank Dux has recently appeared in a two-part interview in the UK’s Martial Arts Illustrated. MAI columnist, Harjit Singh Sagoo (of the Asking the Masters series) put forward all the main accusations and claims made against Frank Dux to Dux himself. He answers in detail to everything. Dux also names notable people (Bill Ryusaki, Rigan Machado, Cynthia Rothrock) whom he says can back up claims of the existence of the legendary Kumite tournament. Dux also names individuals who can back up his claims of involvement in covert operations (Lt. Cmdr Alexander Martin, USN (ret.), Former USSR Major General, Kornienko).


    http://www.martialartsltd.co.uk/mai/archive.php?x=1868#1868
    Part 1 (Vol. 21, No. 7, Dec ‘08 issue)

    http://www.martialartsltd.co.uk/mai/issue.php?i=260&a=1900#1900
    Part 2 (Vol. 21, No. 8, Jan ‘09 issue)

    Part 2 is still out (and will be till Jan 15th 2009).
     
  9. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    I can name a list of people you have heard of that can back up my claims I am Superman.

    It doesn't mean that they will/have. If they can back all this up, why havn't they done so?
     
  10. GBlues

    GBlues Purple Belt

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    I thought that I had heard that Dux had passed away, not that long ago. What the hell? Did I misunderstand something, or was somebody making a joke? I mean I could have swore that i'd heard he was dead. Now there is a January 2009 article with this guy? What did I miss? Did I step into a different dimension or something or what? Oh, man, now I'm really all screwy! DAMIT! Anyways. :erg:
     
  11. Gerardo Mendoza S

    Gerardo Mendoza S Yellow Belt

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    LOL...

    BTW, The Machados are very respectable fighters, I hope to hear or read an official declaration about that claim, at least in their websites.

    Thanks!!
     
  12. Tsuki-Yomi

    Tsuki-Yomi Yellow Belt

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    Cynthia Rothrock is also well known in the martial arts community. I would be very interested in hearing what she has to say in regards to her name being thrown into the mix.
     
  13. ElfTengu

    ElfTengu Blue Belt

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    Great. Ninjutsu rarely makes it into the Martial Arts Press nowadays and when it does, it's Frankie boy. I look forward to the Ashida Kim and Ron Duncan issues that will no doubt follow shortly.

    But why bother criticising the guy, I mean, it's water off a Dux ***.
     
  14. tshadowchaser

    tshadowchaser Sr. Grandmaster

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    Being well know dose not in and of itself mean that one would have knowledge the Kumite unless they had themselves been to it. Which I doubt Cynthia Rothrock would have providing the event is real.
    Word of mouth dose not mean that something is real or unreal.
    If they can produce pictures that can be authenticated as real and being at the tournament with a pic of Dux fighting there then I will believe them and him
     
  15. searcher

    searcher Senior Master

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    It is kind of like claiming that you were in the CIA. There is no practical way of anyone substantiating that claim. If there were a real event as described in the movie Bloodsport and it was supposed to take place every 3 years per the movie, would it still not be going on? And why has nobody come out and made its whereabouts known? I know that underground fights happen, but I doubt they happen at the level of organization depicted in the movie. Afterall boys and girls, it is the movies.
     
  16. matt.m

    matt.m Senior Master

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    The bigger people get the more others want to tear them down. That is the way of things. Anyone with great noteriety has a target on their back. I don't care who you are or what your trade is.

    Look at VanDamme's martial art success. A lot of people were naysayers when the whole "European Champion" thing came to light. They said "Faker" on him. Well they didn't mention he competed with his birth name Van Varenberg on the entry form.

    Plus, the whole thing is this. If you enjoy your instruction then keep doing it.

     
  17. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    On a related note, I'm almost done with my online medical degree. Anyone need some cheap surgery? :idunno:
     
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  18. matt.m

    matt.m Senior Master

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  19. matt.m

    matt.m Senior Master

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    Great, I agree with someone else while being polite and I take the post as a mockery. Thanks man.
     
  20. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    If anything I was mocking Frank "You'll just have to trust me since my background is Top Secret" Dux.
     
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