Your thoughts on being a MA instructor

Grasshopper22

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My Dad is a 3rd Dan in Ju-Jitsu and is thinking of opening his own club up (the same style of Ju-Jitsu, just somewhere else to train) but in my eyes he isn't a high enough rank to be an instructor.
What are your opinions?
 

Never_A_Reflection

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Sandan is, in many arts, the rank that people typically become "sensei" so it isn't particularly unusual unless his system has an odd dan ranking hierarchy. The "general rule" that I have seen followed is that you can promote people up to two levels below your rank, so Sandan would be the first dan rank that could promote people to a dan rank, which seems reasonable for someone who is going to run their own school, particularly if they plan to continue training under a more experienced instructor.

ETA: What clfsean says below is totally true--my response is just in regards to the rank issue.
 
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Steve

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Depends on the style. I train under a brown belt in BJJ. While it's becoming more unusual as the number of brown and black belts increases, there are still legit schools run by purple belts.

Point is, depends entirely on the culture, standards and expectations of your style of martial arts. It is what it is.
 

Rich Parsons

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My Dad is a 3rd Dan in Ju-Jitsu and is thinking of opening his own club up (the same style of Ju-Jitsu, just somewhere else to train) but in my eyes he isn't a high enough rank to be an instructor.
What are your opinions?

Does his style/ art / organization require a higher rank to teach?

Do they require a higher rank to open your own school? (* Some may allow you to teach but under someone else's school *)

Has he taught before and does he like it?

Why is he thining about it? (* Love of the art or money? *)


Does he have a business plan?
i.e.
Fixed Costs: Rent, Phone, Insurance, etcetera (* Minimum length of lease *)
Variable Costs: Water, Sewer, Heating / Cooling , etcetera
Set up Costs: Matts, training gear / equipment
An account to order uniforms ad or belts or t-shirts as required or have stock on hand
Going rate for charging students for that particular art?
Number of prospective Students he thinks will train with him. (* Cut it in half or a third *)
Minimum number of students required to break even for monthly costs

Does he have enough money set aside to pay all bills for no (zero) students paying for three plus months? (* or minimum length of lease *)

Will he have to quit another job to support this one? (* Can he work both until this one takes off or have it cover expenses ? *)



Good Luck
 

oftheherd1

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I taught a small number of select students as a 2nd Dan in Sung Moo Kwan Hapkido. However, I trained directly under a Grand Master, had his permission to do so, and he visited me whenever he came to the US to visit family. I would think your father as a 3rd Dan should be able to teach at least up to 1st Dan.

I am curious. Why in your eyes is you father not high enough to be an instructor?
 

MAist25

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The rank shouldnt really be an issue. If he can teach well and enjoys it, then he should go for it. My first TKD instructor was a 3rd Dan and he was an awesome teacher.
 
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Grasshopper22

Grasshopper22

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Because in every martial art I've ever trained in, the Sensei had been at least a 5th Dan.
 

Grenadier

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In most martial arts systems, a sandan is plenty high enough to start a small school.

He should first try a low-risk venue. You can always rent space from various fitness / health clubs, a YMCA / YWCA, or any other community center. Start out slowly, and build up a good group of white belts.

It's going to be a while before he has to start worrying about who to promote to nidan, and by that time arrives, your dad should be considering asking his old teacher, or some other higher up in the system, if he can test as well. In the meantime, he can use the time to continue to develop good students, and in the process, he'll be improving as well.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Because in every martial art I've ever trained in, the Sensei had been at least a 5th Dan.

The meaning of a particular rank, as well as the rank required for running a school varies considerably from art to art and from organization to organization. A 3rd dan in one art does not necessarily mean the same thing as a 3rd dan in another art. A BJJ first-degree black belt is generally well qualified to run a school*. A Bujinkan first-degree black belt is generally not.

That said, in most arts a 3rd dan is probably considered qualified to be an instructor.


*(I'm speaking here strictly of skill and knowledge in the martial arts. Actual teaching skills and small business skills are something completely separate.)
 

puunui

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My Dad is a 3rd Dan in Ju-Jitsu and is thinking of opening his own club up (the same style of Ju-Jitsu, just somewhere else to train) but in my eyes he isn't a high enough rank to be an instructor.
What are your opinions?

My opinion is that your father should politely speak with his teacher and ask him for his opinion on the matter. Your father should then take the advice of his teacher and do what the teacher suggests.
 

Buka

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My Dad is a 3rd Dan in Ju-Jitsu and is thinking of opening his own club up (the same style of Ju-Jitsu, just somewhere else to train) but in my eyes he isn't a high enough rank to be an instructor.
What are your opinions?

My opinion is you shouldn't air family laundry on the internet. You should go apologize to your dad.
 

yak sao

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ypu don't need to go to a college professor to learn your ABC's...if he's a good teacher then he should go for it....BTW, you are lucky to have a dad with such experience...learn from him everything you can. This is something that will bond the two of you together for a lifetime if you'll let it.
 

Cyriacus

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Depends on the style. I train under a brown belt in BJJ. While it's becoming more unusual as the number of brown and black belts increases, there are still legit schools run by purple belts.

Point is, depends entirely on the culture, standards and expectations of your style of martial arts. It is what it is.

^^^

Also, Rank is not set on one universal standard. Some MA's go up to about 20 Dans, some only go up to 5. And I vaguely recall that some only go up to 1st Dan.
 

Chris Parker

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Because in every martial art I've ever trained in, the Sensei had been at least a 5th Dan.

Hmm, I'm starting to get a tingling about you, Grasshopper.... are you sure about that? Which arts would they be?

You see, the reason I ask is found in your "I feel uncomfortable" thread (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?102512-I-feel-uncomfortable-training), where you were asked:

Do you have experience in some other martial art(s)?

To which you replied:

I don't have any experience in other martial arts, thanks though. I'll just give it time!

So which is it, you've studied other arts under 5th Dan instructors, or you've never trained in other arts?
 

cdunn

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Since the basic question did have some merit;

IMO, Dan ranking is not relevant to your ability to teach, and ergo, should not be relevant to your authority to teach and promote. My organization gives instructor certifications - If you are a certified instructor, you have the authority to open a school and submit individuals for promotion within the organization, regardless of your dan ranking. If you are not a certified instructor, you don't get to open one within the organization. When a certified instructor is present, they get first refusal on the chance to teach the class, even over higher dan-ranked individuals, unless our kwan jang nim has told the certified instructor otherwise.

And, imo, this is the way it needs to be. Certification requires an apprenticeship and examination specifically in instruction; these people have been made or deemed capable to do that job by the organization, and are held to a vastly stricter standard than everyone else. It helps to ensure the passage of the art. I don't walk that path, and don't want to; and that's a valid option - I am absolved of the responsibility by my choice, and the choice of others to take it up.
 

lklawson

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Hmm, I'm starting to get a tingling about you, Grasshopper....
My spider sense is also tingling based on the referenced thread, this thread, and some others where advice and commentary don't match my experience and/or that of others with noted martial experience.

Grasshopper,
Just be yourself, man. We'll like you even if you're just a white belt. You don't need to impress us, I promise.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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