Your Favorite Traditional Weapon

Blindside

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Flying Crane said:
There is a small hardware store in Japantown area in San Francisco, where you can get real Kamas. They are sold as a gardening tool, and they have live, sharp steel blades.

Most of the ones you get from the martial arts suppliers are blunted fakes.

Might be interesting to pick one up and try it out. I've never played with them, but I could see how they could be effective if you hook the blade around the neck, or a limb, and then pull and cut. Seems like it would require a pretty specific technique tho, not just slashing it around.

I own a pair of agricultural kamas, they are very simply made, sharp, and definately not designed for combat utility. Given a choice between facing someone unarmed or armed with a kama, I'll take the kama, but thats about it. I think it would be most useful with a trapping motion into a push-pull/gunting retrieval of the weapon, definately not what you see with alot of the modern forms which have a buch of twirling and slashing.

Lamont
 

Blindside

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Flying Crane said:
Regarding the Chinese sword, there is a distinction between the Gentleman's (scholar's) sword, and the Battle sword.

The Gentleman's sword was lighter, and meant to be carried by a civilian for personal protection. It was not meant to stand up to heavy battlefield use, nor cut thru armor, so it was much lighter, but razor sharp. A Gentleman's sword would be quickly destroyed on a battlefield.

The Battle sword was meant to stand up to heavy, prolonged use and cut thru armor (to the extent possible, anyway), and so had a much heavier and more durable blade. This also made it slower, and required greater strenght to use.

Tho I can't give specific examples, I believe this difference in size, weight, and purpose of the weapon would also mandate a difference in technique. I think technique for a Gentleman's sword would be quicker, and more precise to attack lethal targets that probably were not covered in armor. A Battle sword would be more bold and ferocious, because lethal targets would more likely be protected by some kind of armor, so the weapon just needed to hit hard to cause damage.

It sounds like you are referring to the dao and gim or China that holds parallels to the sidesword and cut & thrust debates of the Renaissance. Another factor is simply the training time, gim take longer to train, and simply because of this factor the troops aren't armed with them. I'm sure I am misquoting, but I read a saying that went something like:

A spear takes 10 hours to train,
A machete (dao) takes 100 hours to train,
A sword (gim) takes 1000 hours to train.

lamont
 

Flying Crane

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Blindside said:
It sounds like you are referring to the dao and gim or China that holds parallels to the sidesword and cut & thrust debates of the Renaissance.
lamont

Actually, no, I am referring to the Gim alone. This has the Gentleman's, and the Battlefield variations.

I believe the Dao is typically a battlefield only weapon, not usually carried as a civilian's weapon, but I could be wrong about that.

The Dao technique is fast, ferocious, and powerful, but typically lacks the finesse, precision and detail of the Gim, at least as far as I have seen. I suspect the Battlefield techniques for the Gim would have these characteristics in common with the Dao.

I suspect also that most of what people learn of the Gim is the Gentleman's techniques. Quick, precise, finesse, and lighter weapons, even if not the tinfoil Modern Wushu stuff. This is good stuff for a fight one-on-one, or in a small group, but wouldn't work as well in the crowded chaos of the battlefield, esp. with a heavier weapon.
 

Flying Crane

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Blindside said:
I own a pair of agricultural kamas, they are very simply made, sharp, and definately not designed for combat utility. Given a choice between facing someone unarmed or armed with a kama, I'll take the kama, but thats about it. I think it would be most useful with a trapping motion into a push-pull/gunting retrieval of the weapon, definately not what you see with alot of the modern forms which have a buch of twirling and slashing.

Lamont

yeah, again I have no experience with the kama, but I think simple techniques would have a chance of working but the fancy twirls often make little sense.
 

beau_safken

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Hell I have lots of experience with Kama's. Dont you remember the movie "Sidekicks" with Chuck Norris. There was that badass Ninja all in White doing a wicked form for Kama's. That was easily the coolest and the last time I saw Kama's used. Isn't that how all KAma forms are supposed to look?
 

HKphooey

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Blindside said:
I agree with the use of it for trapping, its ability to thrust (you refer to it as an axe-like motion), but I posted about strictly its ability as a cutting weapon, where it fairs poorly against other weapons designed for such.

Lamont

I see your point about it not being as effective in slashing cuts as a sword would be, but it (kisaki-point of the kama) will cut (in more of a tearing of the skin). The key to this is having a properly contructed kama. The 'mine', 'shinagi' and the 'ha' must me strong and sharp.

Thrusting (stabbing) and slashing (downward axe-like motion) are two distinctly different kama stikes.

Beau...

The Octogon also has some cool kama stuff.

Any Kung Fu or CMA out there?... how about the sectional chain (not sure of the true name) with the blade at the end.
 

beau_safken

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HKphooey said:
Beau...

The Octogon also has some cool kama stuff.

Oh hell ya it did. Oh man, everytime I see a kama form I can't get that scene out of "Sidekicks" out of my head, just too funny.

Anyway, back on topic. :D
 

bydand

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I have to go along with tshadowchaser on this. I like the staffs as well, 6 foot, 4 foot, or 3 foot. Don't know why, just like them alot.
 

Rich Parsons

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beau_safken said:
No offense but even swords are made for slashing and breaking bones. Not the way all the movies and such make it out that its all lightsaber like. With all the armor that was worn in the old days, the sword was more of less a way of breaking bones and slashing to cause casualties not actually killing a person. Course, thats a pretty broad idea but i'm sure you all get the idea.

A kama...that really is a poor weapon. The point were all the force is concentrated is in the connection between the blade and stick part. I'm sure it would be sweet if you went liger hunting...sweet...

I agree that the roman short sword and shield made a big difference to warfare.

I agree that larger swords were used and over time in many cultures.

Yet, with the advent of gun powder and also with the change in warfeare tactics of many attacking the man in the heavy armor, the usage of the light blade became more popular.



I like the dagger like weapons. The blade can be from 6 inches to 12 inches in length with a cross hilt. Fixed blade structure.

After this I like the Wakzashi and the rattan cane as my weapons.
 

bluemtn

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I have to admit (with my limited experience), I like the escrima an bo.
 
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