You people were right, I should've clarified.

[Buka]

So if a student is required to flunk, would a student who isn't ready be allowed to test?

Yes, always, it was encouraged. No charge, a great workout, and the opportunity to see what's going to be expected of you when the time comes.
Since testing was always on a regular class night, nobody wanted to miss a workout. The only night testing would never be scheduled was Thursday night. That was sparring night. We might spar on any other night or day in addition, but Thursday night was always sparring. It was the busiest night in the dojo. Most fun, too.

And sometimes, promotions were awarded without a test. But when that happened, if there was a test the following week, the recently promoted person would always join the test. Just because nobody wanted to miss a workout. Can't say I blame them. IMO, if you don't love training, you probably shouldn't be in Martial Arts.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

... the sensei scheduling tests when he thought someone was ready, it did not cost extra and only the person or people he said were going to test, would test. And it was pretty much the same in TKD (pre-Olympic) with my TKD teacher.

That's how I do it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

So how did testing work? Did a student have to be told he could test or did he ask to sign up? If testing was on a regular class night, was testing combined with the class or was it done separately?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

So how did testing work? Did a student have to be told he could test or did he ask to sign up? If testing was on a regular class night, was testing combined with the class or was it done separately?

I test my students in class for everything except shodan/ildan gradings.

For kyu/geub ranks, I determine that they're ready to grade and give them the grading syllabus and the application.

For shodan gradings, I do essentially the same thing, but the grading is held on a weekend at the studio. This is due to time constraints; my dan gradings generally run over two hours, while a regular class is an hour (usually slightly more). Any goodies that the student receives for a dan grading (a keikogi/dobok, a certificate, and dinner) are included in the student's tuition.

I have no hapkido yudanja; I have not graded anyone that high since I joined the WHA three years ago, but when that time comes, the only fee the student will have to pay is their association fee, which if I recall, is on par with the Kukkiwon's registration fee.

I am unaffiliated with regards to kendo, so there are no association fees at this point.

As far as my time goes, it is an investment that I choose to make in my students.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I test my students in class for everything except shodan/ildan gradings.

For kyu/geub ranks, I determine that they're ready to grade and give them the grading syllabus and the application.

For shodan gradings, I do essentially the same thing, but the grading is held on a weekend at the studio. This is due to time constraints; my dan gradings generally run over two hours, while a regular class is an hour (usually slightly more). Any goodies that the student receives for a dan grading (a keikogi/dobok, a certificate, and dinner) are included in the student's tuition.

I have no hapkido yudanja; I have not graded anyone that high since I joined the WHA three years ago, but when that time comes, the only fee the student will have to pay is their association fee, which if I recall, is on par with the Kukkiwon's registration fee.

I am unaffiliated with regards to kendo, so there are no association fees at this point.

As far as my time goes, it is an investment that I choose to make in my students.

So, with your 1st dan test you say it takes about two hours, how about the rank before that, how long does that take? Also, in my system there are three levels of brown, brown 1, brown 2, brown 3, and then black? How about your system, what are the last few ranks right before first degree black?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

So, with your 1st dan test you say it takes about two hours, how about the rank before that, how long does that take? Also, in my system there are three levels of brown, brown 1, brown 2, brown 3, and then black? How about your system, what are the last few ranks right before first degree black?

How many belts there are is honestly more a reflection of the school than the system. You can visit ten schools teaching the same system in the same organization and see thirty different belt systems between them (some have a different system for children, tweens, teens, and adults).

In teaching kendo, the adult classes are four kyu grades before shodan. It works well with how I arrange my overall syllabus. For cadet students (twelve to fourteen), I use five kyu grades. For children under twelve, six. I don't have any students younger than eight, but I suppose I could extend it to seven for the very, very young children.

In hapkido, I use only six belts prior to black; white, yellow, green, blue, red, and red/black, but eight geubs (one for white, one for yellow, and two each for green, blue, and red), and a nominal geub (red black).

By contrast, the school where I learned hapkido used a white, white/yellow, yellow, yellow/green, green, green/blue, blue, blue/red, red, red/black, red with two black stripes, and then black, for a total of twelve belts (ten geubs, one nominal geub, and a black belt).

It really all depends on how a school owner chooses to arrange and subdivide his/her curriculum.

Some schools depend upon belt tests as part of their income. Schools that do tend to have more belts, frequently with ascending testing fees.

 

[Xue Sheng]

How many belts there are is honestly more a reflection of the school than the system. You can visit ten schools teaching the same system in the same organization and see thirty different belt systems between them (some have a different system for children, tweens, teens, and adults).

In teaching kendo, the adult classes are four kyu grades before shodan. It works well with how I arrange my overall syllabus. For cadet students (twelve to fourteen), I use five kyu grades. For children under twelve, six. I don't have any students younger than eight, but I suppose I could extend it to seven for the very, very young children.

In hapkido, I use only six belts prior to black; white, yellow, green, blue, red, and red/black, but eight geubs (one for white, one for yellow, and two each for green, blue, and red), and a nominal geub (red black).

By contrast, the school where I learned hapkido used a white, white/yellow, yellow, yellow/green, green, green/blue, blue, blue/red, red, red/black, red with two black stripes, and then black, for a total of twelve belts (ten geubs, one nominal geub, and a black belt).

It really all depends on how a school owner chooses to arrange and subdivide his/her curriculum.

Some schools depend upon belt tests as part of their income. Schools that do tend to have more belts, frequently with ascending testing fees.

Way back in my Jujutsu days we had only 4 belts and back in my TKD days I think there were only 5 or 6 belts. My daughters Aikido school there appears to be 5 belts. And none of them, absolutely none of them had or have a time limit as to how long it took/takes to get the belt and there is was no time limit on a belt test other than the length of class. But the Black belt test in my daughters current aikido school are generally not done at her school and they are tough and take a long time but and there is no time limit. Also there are no black belts in the kids class, the highest they can hope for is brown there.

 

[PhotonGuy]

How many belts there are is honestly more a reflection of the school than the system. You can visit ten schools teaching the same system in the same organization and see thirty different belt systems between them (some have a different system for children, tweens, teens, and adults).

In teaching kendo, the adult classes are four kyu grades before shodan. It works well with how I arrange my overall syllabus. For cadet students (twelve to fourteen), I use five kyu grades. For children under twelve, six. I don't have any students younger than eight, but I suppose I could extend it to seven for the very, very young children.

In hapkido, I use only six belts prior to black; white, yellow, green, blue, red, and red/black, but eight geubs (one for white, one for yellow, and two each for green, blue, and red), and a nominal geub (red black).

By contrast, the school where I learned hapkido used a white, white/yellow, yellow, yellow/green, green, green/blue, blue, blue/red, red, red/black, red with two black stripes, and then black, for a total of twelve belts (ten geubs, one nominal geub, and a black belt).

It really all depends on how a school owner chooses to arrange and subdivide his/her curriculum.

Some schools depend upon belt tests as part of their income. Schools that do tend to have more belts, frequently with ascending testing fees.

I see. There is of course going to be lots of variance in ranking systems from school to school but this discussion I believe warrants the start of a new thread, one I will start on this board when I get around to it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Way back in my Jujutsu days we had only 4 belts and back in my TKD days I think there were only 5 or 6 belts. My daughters Aikido school there appears to be 5 belts. And none of them, absolutely none of them had or have a time limit as to how long it took/takes to get the belt and there is was no time limit on a belt test other than the length of class. But the Black belt test in my daughters current aikido school are generally not done at her school and they are tough and take a long time but and there is no time limit. Also there are no black belts in the kids class, the highest they can hope for is brown there.

I do know sometimes you have to be in the adult class to get to a certain belt, as you said at your child's place you have to be in the adult class to get a black belt but I know of some places where you have to be in the adult class just to get a brown belt. Now, how do you get into the adult class? That also would depend on the place but I believe at some places it might work like this. If you're 18 or older you're automatically in the adult class. If you're under 18 you might be placed in the adult class if you're physically and mentally ready for it. Since we all develop at different rates, when a person gets put in the adult class varies from person to person.

 

[Cirdan]

I do know sometimes you have to be in the adult class to get to a certain belt, as you said at your child's place you have to be in the adult class to get a black belt but I know of some places where you have to be in the adult class just to get a brown belt. Now, how do you get into the adult class? That also would depend on the place but I believe at some places it might work like this. If you're 18 or older you're automatically in the adult class. If you're under 18 you might be placed in the adult class if you're physically and mentally ready for it. Since we all develop at different rates, when a person gets put in the adult class varies from person to person.

I think most or at least many places let you join the adult class way younger than 18.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think most or at least many places let you join the adult class way younger than 18.

Like I said people grow and develop at different rates and I often do see people in adult classes who are much younger than 18. I myself was in adult classes when I was under 18 but if you're 18 or older you definitely will be in an adult class.

 

[Cirdan]

Like I said people grow and develop at different rates and I often do see people in adult classes who are much younger than 18. I myself was in adult classes when I was under 18 but if you're 18 or older you definitely will be in an adult class.

At 18 definately. Every art I have been involved in would let you join the regular adult classes around 13 years of age. I would be interested to hear what arts let you stay in kid classes until 18. It actually never occured to me that some would.

 

[PhotonGuy]

At 18 definately. Every art I have been involved in would let you join the regular adult classes around 13 years of age. I would be interested to hear what arts let you stay in kid classes until 18. It actually never occured to me that some would.

I never heard of any dojos that do that but at some places here is how it works when you sign up. If you're 18+ you're automatically put in the adult class. If you're under 18 you would be put in the children's or the adult's class depending on your physical and mental maturity. Although its not scribed in stone, there are some places that generally around the age of 15 you would be in an adult class. At my place, I was in an adult class when I was as young as 12 but like I said, there is no definite cutoff age when you would go into the adult class. Its just that at the time you sign up if you're 18 or older you automatically go into the adult class and if you're under 18 although there is no definite age when you would be placed in the adult class it would usually be way before you turn 18.

 

[jezr74]

I never heard of any dojos that do that but at some places here is how it works when you sign up. If you're 18+ you're automatically put in the adult class. If you're under 18 you would be put in the children's or the adult's class depending on your physical and mental maturity. Although its not scribed in stone, there are some places that generally around the age of 15 you would be in an adult class. At my place, I was in an adult class when I was as young as 12 but like I said, there is no definite cutoff age when you would go into the adult class. Its just that at the time you sign up if you're 18 or older you automatically go into the adult class and if you're under 18 although there is no definite age when you would be placed in the adult class it would usually be way before you turn 18.

When I was 18, if I signed up for classes with my 18 yo mate. And he went to the Adult classes and I went in the kids. I'd be walking straight out the door. (after my tantrum)

 

[Cirdan]

I never heard of any dojos that do that but at some places here is how it works when you sign up. If you're 18+ you're automatically put in the adult class. If you're under 18 you would be put in the children's or the adult's class depending on your physical and mental maturity. Although its not scribed in stone, there are some places that generally around the age of 15 you would be in an adult class. At my place, I was in an adult class when I was as young as 12 but like I said, there is no definite cutoff age when you would go into the adult class. Its just that at the time you sign up if you're 18 or older you automatically go into the adult class and if you're under 18 although there is no definite age when you would be placed in the adult class it would usually be way before you turn 18.

Have you actually been to a club that would put people in kids` classes if you were say 17 and not particularily mature?

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have put 12 year olds in the adult class before but they where more mature than the other kids and learned fast and had respect for what they learned. I also trusted them not to use what they where taught unless it was necessary.
I have never put an adult in the kids class but I have had a 12 year old lead the adult class and to take an adult aside and teach him/her the basics.
I do separate those not mature enough for the adult class from the rest and when I do I tell them to smarted up and act mature or get out.
Now those that have a mental disability I treat with respect and have them do what they can with the whole class and then separate them for almost private training. This training is usually a watered down version of what the others n class are learning and may actually be taught in a much less military way with joking and laughing being part of the learning. These individuals need to learn but how and what they are able to do, and what they should or should not be taught must be taken into mind by the instructor

 

[Transk53]

Now those that have a mental disability I treat with respect and have them do what they can with the whole class and then separate them for almost private training. This training is usually a watered down version of what the others n class are learning and may actually be taught in a much less military way with joking and laughing being part of the learning. These individuals need to learn but how and what they are able to do, and what they should or should not be taught must be taken into mind by the instructor

Good to hear that!

 

[PhotonGuy]

Usually around the ages of 12-15 are students placed in adult classes, at least that's my experience at the places I've trained at. I've never seen students with mental disabilities train in the martial arts but it makes sense that they would be taught somewhat separately while still letting them do what they can to the best of their ability in terms of what the other student's are doing. Much like how in most if not all public schools, they have a special education program for students who are mentally disabled.

Anyway, concerning the fact that I should've clarified with my sensei about whether or not I had to be told I could take the black belt test or if I had to ask to sign up for it myself, for those who said I should've clarified, I thought you were supposed to shut up and train and not ask questions about rank, Im just saying.

 

[Buka]

We used to have a large kids class at one time. Some of the kids who had been there for a few years used to help out leading the class, assist with new kid students, sometimes warm a class up for me etc. I used to have some of them take the adult class once in a while, and all the adults with rank would take them under their wing. Then, once that student felt comfortable enough on the dojo floor with the adults, I'd wait a month or so, then have him/her teach the entire adult class from start to finish. I'd line up and take the class along with everyone else. I'd tell the young student beforehand, "run any drills you want, have the class do whatever you want, speak loudly and clearly. If a question comes up you don't know the answer to tell them you don't know but will find out by next class. Just have fun."

The majority of the student body at the time were young men in late teens through early thirties. It was good for them (IMO) in many ways. It was fun for the young teacher, too.

One time, I overheard one of my top green belts (he was 23) say after a class, "I didn't come here to be taught by a woman". (there was one female instructor, and a couple who helped out at times with beginners) The next day I had my wife teach class and had her do the favorite drills/games of the student body. One was bull in the ring which the guys loved. Just as they were about to start, I stopped class and said, "Rich, you didn't come here to learn from a woman, so you'll sit out and watch." I did that the next three times he showed up for class. The classes were wildly fun, people hootin and hollerin, clapping and spurring everyone else on. I made Rich sit against the wall and just watch each time. He was so miserable it was hard not to laugh. It helped straighten out his attitude and he went on to become a good black belt. He also got choked out several times grappling.....by my wife. (which was even funnier)

There's a lot of ways to teach, and a lot of ways to learn.

 

[Zero]

It doesn't surprise me in the least but that said, maybe it should come as a surprise that a club allows you to sign yourself up to partake in testing (at any level) and to pay a fee for such testing (above and beyond no doubt the monthly fees you are already paying).
I am glad that with my times in judo, TKD, goju ryu and, for a couple of years, wing chun, it was the trainer/sensie/sifu that decided when you were ready to test - surely it is they who are best placed to determine at what stage you are? Further there was no extra fee for the grading itself, you only shelled out for the cost of the new belt or the cost of the certificate for wing chun, in all cases quite nominal.