Yippiee! More "no touch" knockouts! Yay!

[hardheadjarhead]

Folks had posted the Steve Stewart "no touch" KO's...below are a few other sites containing them.

http://www.geocities.com/uk_dbbai/

(I can tell if the above is done tongue in cheek or not...the site seems a little odd)

More here:

http://www.kyushojitsutuite.com/knockouts.html

http://www.kyusho-uechi-ryu.co.uk/knockout.htm

These are done in all seriousness.

Well...I have $300 bucks in my wallet right now that says that nobody can put me down with a "no touch." Not a whole lot...but given it seems to take ten seconds to do this stunt, that works out to an hourly wage of of $108,000 an hour. Did I compute that right? In any case, not a bad chunk of change for ten seconds work.

The conditions are these:

Nobody touches me. Neither the guy doing the knockout or his assistants...at any time.

Nobody "catches" me. If you insist on this, then people of my choosing will catch me. If they require instruction on how to catch someone by you, you may do this but with someone other than me.

Nobody attempts to "revive" me (I submit it won't be needed). I am not to be touched at any time. I will assume all liability for injuries sustained IN WRITING...provided you don't touch me. If you get frustrated and hit me with contact, you'll face any legal and civil consequences.

Any takers? Once this $300 grows to $700 (I'm saving earnestly), its going towards a digital camera and the deal will be off...unless you want to do the knockout for nothing.

Takers?

Regards,


Steve

 

[Black Bear]

Too bad you don't live in London, ON. And unfortunately I don't think lifewise or Kenpogirl would like him to "not touch" them.

 

[Yossarian75]

This no touch Knockout stuff really bothers me, I thought only jedis could do this!!

Saying that, Ive been to a couple of DBBAI seminars, some of the stuff I was shown was gold(I can hit a lot harder now). They are into all the Ki stuff which I find really hard to swallow(Physics graduate). But what Ive seen some of it seems to work! I dont know, how but it does. I have had the no touch knock out demonstrated on me, I did not fall over but i did feel a slight pulling from behind, could have been my imagination. I did see people losing their balance and stagger but not everyone.

Rich Mooney is doing a seminar in my area later in the year which I will be attending, I really want him to try and knock me out(no touch) I will be resisting with all my scepticism(sp?).

My advice go and see one of these guys and try it for yourself its bloody wierd. I know all the Ki stuff sounds far fetched but im thinking that there is something in it whether it is actually ki or stage magic or whatever.

 

[Makalakumu]

You know that with the nanotechnology THEY are putting into our bodies everytime we get vaccinated, someone just might step up to the plate on your offer. Of course the secret would be blown then...

 

[hardheadjarhead]

<snip> I have had the no touch knock out demonstrated on me, I did not fall over but i did feel a slight pulling from behind, could have been my imagination. I did see people losing their balance and stagger but not everyone.

Rich Mooney is doing a seminar in my area later in the year which I will be attending, I really want him to try and knock me out(no touch) I will be resisting with all my scepticism(sp?).

My advice go and see one of these guys and try it for yourself its bloody wierd. I know all the Ki stuff sounds far fetched but im thinking that there is something in it whether it is actually ki or stage magic or whatever.

Something in it? How about the power of suggestion...or fraud?

I'm not about to PAY to witness such a thing in a seminar format. The offer stands should anyone of them want to come down and try and collect the money I've offered.

This stuff is all so easily testable. I doubt any of the NTKO folks would want to submit their skills to rigorous scientific analysis. I'm not sure how I'd make the test "double blind", or what I'd submit for controls...but this would be easier to test, I think, than most other parapsychological phenomena.

A simple, though not rigorous, method for doing this would be to simply gather people off the street and have them stand in front of the person doing the NTKO. Let the "hitter" then do his hand waving bit and see what effect it has on the subject (other than strange looks from the subject in response to this odd behavior). Rationalizations for failure to follow.

One could blindfold the subject as well, so as to insure they don't get any visual cues from the NTKO artist. This would prevent a recoil or flinch response from having hands close to one's face...which could be interpreted as "staggering" or a loss of balance due to ki interference, etc.

Too bad you don't live in London, ON.

I'll be happy to drive up there if Stewart wants to do a NTKO on me. He has to meet the above criteria, though...and one other requirement. I get to video the event and post it to MY web site. Maybe we could get a local news station involved?


Regards,


Steve

 

[Black Bear]

Oh, it's pretty simple. 1) "Blinding", and 2) "double-blinding" can be done simply by 1) literally blindfolding you, and 2) having the rater not be able to tell when Stu is "really" doing it to you.

Here's a rough sketch of an experimental protocol. Say, you're facing them both, ten feet away or however far it's supposed to be to be most effective. They're close together but separated by a partition. On side A is Stu. On side B is a live rater and a guy with a video camera. Above and behind you is an unmanned video camera, which sees all: you, side A, and side B.

Probably another experimenter should be next to Stu (on side A) operating the randomizer and recording which trials are real NTKO techniques and which are placebo controls. At the beginning of each trial, Stu holds up a card indicating to the camera which he is about to do: placebo, or real KO, in accordance with the randomization.

Ratings can be categorical or continuous. If categorical, a chi-square statistical test will suffice. If continuous, the ratings can be tested with a one-tailed t-test in order to determine if there was there was an increase in passing-out behaviour on your part in the experimental condition. :lol:

Seriously, all this should not be necessary given that KO'ing is supposedly such a robust effect. And we're trying to eliminate the risk of a FALSE NEGATIVE, not so much a FALSE POSITIVE. The kinds of confounds we're concerned about aren't likely to result in a false negative. The blindfold will be enough to make it plain to the casual observer that nothing is happening. But if you want a good protocol that can be scientifically scrutinized, that's it.

 

[Yossarian75]

Something in it? How about the power of suggestion...or fraud
I'm not about to PAY to witness such a thing in a seminar format. The offer stands should anyone of them want to come down and try and collect the money I've offered.

I guess youll never find out. I find it highly unlikeky one of these guys will take you up on your offer since id say around 99% of MAists are sceptics about NTKO's plus i imagine they could make a lot more at a seminar. It only cost me £10 thats around $7.

I remember reading an article a while back when James Randy tested Rich Mooney. He had to knock someone down through a wall, he never managed it and grumbled about the testing conditions.

none of the Ki stuff stands up to scientific analysis the closest thing I have seen is Kilrian(aura) photography which in itself is considered dodgy. But does that mean its rubbish?

 

[Makalakumu]

If categorical, a chi-square statistical test will suffice.

Yeah, words like chi-square test just might convince those guys to try it. Are there other tests that have such ironic homonymbus?

 

[Black Bear]

Kirlian photography is not what so many people seem to think it is. Certainly not force fields/auras/life energy.

Dang, I had some research I did up on Kirlian photography, but apparently I no longer have the file. I don't remember a thing. I guess maybe you could start here: http://skepdic.com/kirlian.html

It was about a year ago. I got the business card of a guy who did EMDR and "power therapies" (TFT, EFT, etc.). It didn't say exactly what he was into, so I contacted him to chat (I want to know what the other professionals are into, in my town. That's when I found out he was doing this garbage. He had the audacity to claim Kirlian photographs to be evidence of auras/thought fields.

£10, isn't that more like 22USD or so?

No, to seriously make this work, you have to put up large sums of money, in a very public way, to embarrass them into doing it. Randi can do it, very few of the rest of us are willing to make a serious endeavour of it.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I remember reading an article a while back when James Randy tested Rich Mooney. He had to knock someone down through a wall, he never managed it and grumbled about the testing conditions.

none of the Ki stuff stands up to scientific analysis the closest thing I have seen is Kilrian(aura) photography which in itself is considered dodgy. But does that mean its rubbish?

I admire Randi. I've read most, if not all, of his books. If you ever find a link to the article mentionining this incident, I'd love to see it. Randi offers...what is it?... million bucks for anybody that can give evidence of supernatural phenomena?

Everyone fails. They ALWAYS grumble about the test conditions, which are reasonable.

As to the Kirlian photography, its been adequately debunked. I think so, anyway. Here's the link:

http://skepdic.com/kirlian.html


Good protocol for testing, Black Bear. To get my $300, they need but knock me down without touching me. Maybe I'll run your protocol for the fun of it and video tape it. They probably won't like that.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Black Bear]

Here, this was the response that I wrote back to that fruitcake. It was about a year and a half ago, but I archived it in my email. Notice that I was a lot more diplomatic at the time. Now I'm just sick sick sick of phonies, whether in personal safety, therapy, education, etc. "The wonderful thing about bluntness is that it gauges the strong and intimidates the weak." - Tony Blauer.

"With respect to kirlian photography, I had been interested in this as a child when I saw kirlian photographs in National Geographic magazines. The notion that these captured "life force fields" was in full swing at the time (early 80's). It's been awhile since I've done any scholarly reading on this topic, but it's pretty much understood now what it does and does not capture. Not life force at all. Actually, what is recorded is due to quite natural phenomena such as pressure, electrical grounding, humidity and temperature. Changes in moisture (which may reflect changes in emotions), barometric pressure, and voltage, among other things, will produce different 'auras'.

"'Living things...are moist. When the electricity enters the living object, it produces an area of gas ionization around the photographed object, assuming moisture is present on the object. This moisture is transferred from the subject to the emulsion surface of the photographic film and causes an alternation of the electric charge pattern on the film. If a photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no Kirlian image appears. If the Kirlian image were due to some paranormal fundamental living energy field, it should not disappear in a simple vacuum.' (Hines)

"It is unfortunate that even now, clever frauds continue to perpetuate myths with respect to Kirlian phenomena among an unsuspecting and gullible public. I would urge extreme caution in including this in your own practice. The use of kirlian photography for health diagnosis is in the same category as, frankly, "Weekly World News" stuff (my favourite supermarket news source).

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-05/i-files.html
http://www.users.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic/field.htm
http://www.netasia.net/users/truehealth/Kirlian Photography.htm

"But this whole sordid Kirlian affair is instructive of how pseudoscience holds itself together and promotes itself. Promoters of certain controversial therapies will see something, read something, perhaps a blurb about quantum theory or Pert's research on neuropeptides, something that says "whoa, conventional thought was all backward on this" and see a possible conceptual link with the theoretical basis of their own therapy. They jump up and say, "why, this proves what we (power therapists, ayurvedics, reiki practitioners, etc.) have been saying all along!" without a true understanding of the actual science, and what it does and does not show. Often what they imagine to be deep isomorphisms are only a superficial resemblance. The coronal discharge pictured in Kirlian photos look like what an aura SHOULD look like. But they're NOT auras, nor thought fields."

I hope this helps. I'm interested in seeing what the rest of you know about these matters.

 

[Black Bear]

Glad you like the protocol. I designed a lot of behavioural research when I was in school.

 

[Black Bear]

upnorth, I didn't get the irony in the name until you pointed it out. That's good.

File #326: list of psychological terms that sound kinky but aren't:
Item 1) "Woodcock-Johnson Achievement Test"
Item 2) "funnel debriefing" ("You're going to remove their briefs with WHAT???")

 

[Black Bear]

Third-party University Research Consultant: "Well, we can treat it as a dichotomous variable or a continuous one. If dichotomous, we can use a chi-squared test--"

STU(pid): (in Homer Simpson voice) "Ooh, chi-squared, I like the sounds of that! Give me that one!"

Too bad it's pronounced "kai" (rhymes with "guy") like the Greek letter.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I had a guy who was a black belt under one of those one-touch KO guys come in insisting that he could knock me out with a light touch, and I should be scared....that if he didn't revive me properly, my energy system would be so FUBARED, I might die in my sleep. I had only 4 months of BJJ at that point, but I bet him I could put him to sleep 10 out of 10 times before he could knock me out once.

After the first clash ending in him sleeping (trying to tap me behind the ear while I buried my face, instead of blocking the choke), he was sure he knew the weakness of my approach, and wanted to try again. So we did. Ended the same way...him sleeping and twitching. I think a reptilian survival response fired in his brain, because he didn't want to do it a 3rd time, much less count to ten.

Now they're claiming to not even need to touch the target? I'll be glad to extend the bet to them...If it's an energetic burst, they should have no trouble effecting it's delivery, even from under mata leon.

 

[Josh]

ya'll. it's not a big secret. It's Pyschological stuff. They're not big knockouts. They work of your psyche. And when they invade your space, you tend to want to "fall back" or just move.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

ya'll. it's not a big secret. It's Pyschological stuff. They're not big knockouts. They work of your psyche. And when they invade your space, you tend to want to "fall back" or just move.

Well, Josh...that's not what they're marketing them as. Look at the video clips. People are dropping from as far twenty feet away and then people are rushing (always with great urgency, I note) to sit them up and give them a scalp and neck rub, i.e., a revival.

On the close up ones people aren't merely moving. They're collapsing.


Regards,


Steve

 

[someguy]

Tell you what I can do it to you. First of all though you must stand on your head though. Secondly some times I only knock people over. It also takes me abit of time to do it so what do you say.
Just incase somebody can't tell I'm not serious. I'd be intrested in having someone try on me.

 

[philinoy]

I remember reading an article a while back when James Randy tested Rich Mooney.

Randy never tested him. I was there. The test was a put up against moonbeam from the beginning.

 

[philinoy]

By the way yossarian, how was the seminar? did you go? what did he do? we all wanna know