Yippiee! More "no touch" knockouts! Yay!

[RRouuselot]

There is a thread on ebudo telling a story of guy coming to Mizuno sensei branch. He said that he could retract his testicles and could with stand a kick to them. Mizuno sensei replied, oh can I see. So within a few minutes and some strange facial expressions he said OK and was kicked. Mizuno sensei said very interesting and then went on with the class. The next week the same guy comes back, he wants to do randori. So he and Mizuno sensei start randori, where upon he gets kicked in the groin. Well of course he goes down in pain and Mizuno sensei comes up and says, oh, I though you could retract them, and the guy says, yes, but I need time to get ready.

These sort of party tricks are great entertainment, and some of them may be real; however I have yet to see any with value within the context of a martial art.

:rofl:

 

[Cryozombie]

Some chicago Dojo was claiming to be able to do this a while back, and a news reporter went in to "catch it on tape"

As I recall... after several failed attempts the guy finally whacked the female reporter upside the head and she called it over and done, and said it doesnt work.

 

[RRouuselot]

Some chicago Dojo was claiming to be able to do this a while back, and a news reporter went in to "catch it on tape"

As I recall... after several failed attempts the guy finally whacked the female reporter upside the head and she called it over and done, and said it doesnt work.

Yup! He is a Dillman guy and made all kinds of excuses why it worked on every single student of his but when he was taken to the local BBJ club it didn't work on a single person.
There was a thread here on MT that had a link to it.
It was funny as hell!

 

[ppko]

Yup! He is a Dillman guy and made all kinds of excuses why it worked on every single student of his but when he was taken to the local BBJ club it didn't work on a single person.
There was a thread here on MT that had a link to it.
It was funny as hell!

He is not a Dillman guy he has not been one for quite some time.

 

[RRouuselot]

He is not a Dillman guy he has not been one for quite some time.

He WAS a 7th dan under Dillman.....makes no difference. No touch KOs are crap.

 

[The Kai]

Martial Arts=Work

Great Martial Artist=Tons of work
What happened to the Black Belt being the product of thousands of hours of Dirt, Sweat and even Blood
Todd

 

[RRouuselot]

Martial Arts=Work

Great Martial Artist=Tons of work
What happened to the Black Belt being the product of thousands of hours of Dirt, Sweat and even Blood
Todd

Easy....along came....
The Internet
Mass Marketing Techniques
Video Tapes
etc....etc...

Why work for something when you can just buy it cheap and quick like a cheeseburger at McDonalds

 

[The Kai]

Just one more step to making the Blacl Belt and the whole martial arts thing worthless. While a few individuals make a couple bucks, the quality is dropping thru the toliet. Question, what happens when your products are known as cheap, worthless or easily broken? Does your logo inspire?

Todd

 

[RRouuselot]

Just one more step to making the Blacl Belt and the whole martial arts thing worthless. While a few individuals make a couple bucks, the quality is dropping thru the toliet. Question, what happens when your products are known as cheap, worthless or easily broken? Does your logo inspire?

Todd

When I was a kid "Made in Japan" = crap....now look at it.....most decent electronic stuff comes from Japan....still not too fond of the cars though.
I NEED a Ford GT..http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/home.asp..and that damn Santa Claus didn't bring me one....bastard!
Things can change both ways....it just takes more effort to do the right thing

 

[Colin_Linz]

Just one more step to making the Blacl Belt and the whole martial arts thing worthless. While a few individuals make a couple bucks, the quality is dropping thru the toliet. Question, what happens when your products are known as cheap, worthless or easily broken? Does your logo inspire?

Todd

Just one of the problems with the commercialising of budo. People start doing business seminars and look for ways to grow and expand. Then slowly they start to change their art to meet perceived customer needs. They “modernise it” make it “street effective” and make it more suitable for the McDonalds philosophy that prevails our time. In doing this they destroy many of the worthwhile aspects of the study of budo and turn it into just another activity like Aerobics.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

God forbid something might actually be "street effective."

There is nothing wrong with growing, expanding-or doing business seminars-provided there isn't a decline in quality. Even a martial arts franchise can do this if done properly. Problem: It isn't done properly and integrity is thrown in the waste can.

I consistently see people cracking on commercial schools and casting about the "McDojo" appelation loosely and without any sense of definition. This is incorrect and unfair. "Commercial" does not by default mean "crap."

I've had the charge leveled against me by a local instructor. He started casting allegations we were teaching arts we weren't authorized to teach-yet every one of our instructors is certified in the arts we teach.

He at one time said, "If I had half a mind to, I'd open up a school and shut the Scotts down." He was told by someone in the know that if he had "half a mind" to do such a thing, he'd be operating with exactly the right equipment. Why? Because we market well? Yes. We're also good teachers and have top notch programs.

Years later this guy taught a university course on running a commercial martial arts school--to date he's never done this, having only run small clubs at community centers. He was either fired or denied contract renewal at two of those programs and we took them over. His karma ran over him.

My point? Jealousy motivated this man. My wife and I and our instructors lived the dream. He's still dreaming it.

If you can do better than those schools you malign...if you can run a commercial school and not make it a McDojo--then do so. If you're already doing that, great. If not, get cracking. I'd love nothing better than to see another good school to contest those McDojos that are out there (and I freely acknowledge they exist).

If you think that merely opening up such a school is automatically an insult to the arts--I'd suggest you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. A number of fine students and instructors here on MT and elsewhere who have either trained in--or operate--top notch martial arts schools. They go to business seminars; they host, teach, and attend martial arts seminars; they expand their programs; they make their arts street effective; and they make a lving at it.

But if they do "no touch knockouts," I submit they're not street effective nor a McDojo. They're a cult. And they're selling you a bill of goods.

My offer still stands if anybody wants to knock me out with one of these "no touch" techniques. I'm all a-shiver with anticipation.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Colin_Linz]

God forbid something might actually be "street effective."

There is nothing wrong with growing, expanding-or doing business seminars-provided there isn't a decline in quality. Even a martial arts franchise can do this if done properly. Problem: It isn't done properly and integrity is thrown in the waste can.

I consistently see people cracking on commercial schools and casting about the "McDojo" appelation loosely and without any sense of definition. This is incorrect and unfair. "Commercial" does not by default mean "crap."

I've had the charge leveled against me by a local instructor. He started casting allegations we were teaching arts we weren't authorized to teach-yet every one of our instructors is certified in the arts we teach.

He at one time said, "If I had half a mind to, I'd open up a school and shut the Scotts down." He was told by someone in the know that if he had "half a mind" to do such a thing, he'd be operating with exactly the right equipment. Why? Because we market well? Yes. We're also good teachers and have top notch programs.

Years later this guy taught a university course on running a commercial martial arts school--to date he's never done this, having only run small clubs at community centers. He was either fired or denied contract renewal at two of those programs and we took them over. His karma ran over him.

My point? Jealousy motivated this man. My wife and I and our instructors lived the dream. He's still dreaming it.

If you can do better than those schools you malign...if you can run a commercial school and not make it a McDojo--then do so. If you're already doing that, great. If not, get cracking. I'd love nothing better than to see another good school to contest those McDojos that are out there (and I freely acknowledge they exist).

If you think that merely opening up such a school is automatically an insult to the arts--I'd suggest you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. A number of fine students and instructors here on MT and elsewhere who have either trained in--or operate--top notch martial arts schools. They go to business seminars; they host, teach, and attend martial arts seminars; they expand their programs; they make their arts street effective; and they make a lving at it.

But if they do "no touch knockouts," I submit they're not street effective nor a McDojo. They're a cult. And they're selling you a bill of goods.

My offer still stands if anybody wants to knock me out with one of these "no touch" techniques. I'm all a-shiver with anticipation.


Regards,


Steve

Ok, I should point out that not all commercial schools are bad for their art, and that schools can be run commercially without compromising their values or techniques, but these schools teachers have a belief in the value of what they teach that is above the profit line.



These comments relate to the types of schools I see that are based mainly on a commercial venture. I have no interest in running a commercial school. One reason is that we are not allowed to make money from teaching our art, but my main reasons are those I mentioned in my earlier post. If you do then fine, I don’t have a problem with that, it’s just not my cup of tea. I’m not going to prostitute my art for the sake of meeting whatever are today’s trends and fashions. The biggest problem I see with these schools is that many of the people that start them seem to have very little experience, sure they may have spent some time in the martial arts but they drift around from art to art and never learn anything other than a few basics. They may even obtain a Black Belt in some, but all this means is that they have enough basic understanding to begin to learn the art, yet what do they do, they go off and start their own style. They then claim they wanted to make it more street effective or some other rubbish like that. If they stayed with the original traditional style for any length of time they would probably realise how much they have watered down or misunderstood the techniques.



I hate the term “street effective” as it implies that other arts are not. What does it mean, that the various martial arts were developed to be ineffective? I can’t comment on other arts because I just don’t know them that well, but Shorinji Kempo was put to the test in campaigns on the streets against the Yakuza in Tadotsu post WW2, eventually driving them out. I often wonder just what some of these “street effective styles” have to back up their claims (please note these are general comments, not directed towards your school).

 

[rmcrobertson]

One should very much like to see the documentation for the claim of shorinji kempo's efficacy post-WWII.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

They may even obtain a Black Belt in some, but all this means is that they have enough basic understanding to begin to learn the art, yet what do they do, they go off and start their own style.

Agreed, there are many out there like that. Not all are like that, however.

I hate the term “street effective” as it implies that other arts are not. What does it mean, that the various martial arts were developed to be ineffective? I can’t comment on other arts because I just don’t know them that well, but Shorinji Kempo was put to the test in campaigns on the streets against the Yakuza in Tadotsu post WW2, eventually driving them out. I often wonder just what some of these “street effective styles” have to back up their claims (please note these are general comments, not directed towards your school).

I agree that a number of schools will pander by saying "street effective." I've even seen one advertise "The world's most effective form of self defense." That said, many of those that advertise "street effective" are trying to counter those "McDojos" so many justifiably rail against.

As for any style being effective in the forties, or the fifties, or the late nineteenth century...that's interesting, but invalid. What are they doing NOW?


Regards,


Steve

 

[RRouuselot]

Any MA that teaches the most basic and effective concepts has the “potential” to be street effective. It all boils down to the attitude of the person that is studying it.

You can study the best art in the world but if you don’t have the heart or drive to survive you will lose

Street effective= how bad you want to survive or not become a victim.....how far you are willing to go.

 

[Colin_Linz]

Attitude and training methods make something effective. In what way has the needs changed from last century to now. People are still going to ambush you, hit you, kick you, use weapons or attack in gangs. These things are timeless, the only change is the environment we live in.

As for documentation of Shorinji Kempo’s claims, I have none. I accept the stories told to me by the different Sensei that were students at that time or not long after, and the written history from WSKO. Of course I don’t expect you to, you haven’t the experiences with Shorinji Kempo that I have had.

 

[D.Cobb]

Any MA that teaches the most basic and effective concepts has the “potential” to be street effective. It all boils down to the attitude of the person that is studying it.

You can study the best art in the world but if you don’t have the heart or drive to survive you will lose

Street effective= how bad you want to survive or not become a victim.....how far you are willing to go.

I had a group of youths stop me and ask questions about my training one night as I was leaving the dojo. One of them was a bit more of a smart a$$ than the others. He says to me, "what would you do if we were to all jump you at one time?"

My answer, "What ever it F*****g takes! How many of you are prepared to go that far?"

To my delight, none of them were!

--Dave

 

[RRouuselot]

I don’t usually write about this stuff because people always seem to take it the wrong way.......



I and a friend were walking home from work years ago and this punk dressed up as an East LA gangbanger slammed into me quite on purpose. I turned to look back and he did the same. I have to admit I don’t really look like a “tough guy” so he most likely thought I was going to be “easy”.

He got mouthy and starting swearing and doing “gang signs” at me and saying how he was going to “cut” me and gesturing to his pocket, I asked what his major malfunction was. He said he was going to kick my ***….so I asked him “Oh…are going to fight?”….he said “yeah, I am going to “f” you up”, he motioned like he was putting his hand in his pocket….at this point I said nothing and grabbed both his ears and ever so delicately slammed my forehead onto the bridge of his nose with a nice head butt……which seemed to break his nose rather quickly…..he fell and crumpled up in a little ball moaning about something, I couldn’t really understand what he was saying….so I asked “are we done fighting now?”…

 

[Colin_Linz]

I don’t usually write about this stuff because people always seem to take it the wrong way.......



I and a friend were walking home from work years ago and this punk dressed up as an East LA gangbanger slammed into me quite on purpose. I turned to look back and he did the same. I have to admit I don’t really look like a “tough guy” so he most likely thought I was going to be “easy”.

He got mouthy and starting swearing and doing “gang signs” at me and saying how he was going to “cut” me and gesturing to his pocket, I asked what his major malfunction was. He said he was going to kick my ***….so I asked him “Oh…are going to fight?”….he said “yeah, I am going to “f” you up”, he motioned like he was putting his hand in his pocket….at this point I said nothing and grabbed both his ears and ever so delicately slammed my forehead onto the bridge of his nose with a nice head butt……which seemed to break his nose rather quickly…..he fell and crumpled up in a little ball moaning about something, I couldn’t really understand what he was saying….so I asked “are we done fighting now?”…

Come on Robert, surely you could have done a not touch knock out, or would that have spoiled the fun.

 

[RRouuselot]

Come on Robert, surely you could have done a not touch knock out, or would that have spoiled the fun.

Sorry, I value my life.....I leave that kind of voodoo for other people