Yang Chengfu not Yang Banhou interesting

[Xue Sheng]

I found this interesting.

Yang Jwing Ming has previously claimed a lineage from his sifu Gao Tao to Yang Banhou and I just found this on Yang Jwing Ming’s website that Gao Tao (高濤), the Yang taijiquan teacher of Yang Jwing Ming, had 2 teachers Yue Huanzhi and Dong Yingjie (Tung Ying Chieh).

But both Yue Huanzhi and Tung Ying Chieh were students of Yang Chengfu, not Yang Banhou, as far as I can tell and since Master Gao was born in 1932 it is unlikely that he ever learned form Yang Banhou who was born in 1837 and died in 1892.

Master Gao Biography

Born in 1932, his ancestral home is Tianjin in Hebei province. In Shanghai in 1944 he became a formal student of master Yue Huanzhi from Henan province, from whom he studied Yang style taijiquan for three years. After graduating from junior high school, he moved to Hong Kong, where through an introduction from master Yue, he studied under Dong Yingjie, who in those years was a famous Taijiquan master, originally from Hebei province.

 

[Formosa Neijia]

Haha!

Yeah, this is interesting. The claims about Ban-hou style will now have to go.

I watched Gao Tao's performance at the World Cup a few weeks back. It seemed like fairly standard Yang style, quite a bit more so than Dr. Yang's performance. For example, the single whip seemed....um....more "mainstream" than I've seen from Dr. Yang.

I wonder if his style will change now that he's re-established contact with his teacher. I also wonder how much Dr. Yang was influenced by long fist teacher's taiji from Han Qing-tan.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thank you, I was wondering what Gao Tao's form looked like.

And it will be interesting to watch what happens to Yang Jwing Ming's Taiji now. And the Yang Banhou line will have to go. I asked Yang once via e-mail and whoever was answering for him or maybe him told me Banhou, but this was about 3 years ago.

I will add that my Taiji teacher (student of Tung Ying Chieh) when he first saw Yang's form asked me one question "What did he learn before Taiji?" I told him I was not sure either Long Fist or White crane. My sifu then said; "that explains it"

 

[Formosa Neijia]

Unfortunately I didn't film Gao's performance. The YMAA guys definitely did. I was standing next to them so I know they got it. But I don't know if they will post it on youtube or not. I hope they do.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Unfortunately I didn't film Gao's performance. The YMAA guys definitely did. I was standing next to them so I know they got it. But I don't know if they will post it on youtube or not. I hope they do.

I hope they do as well, I will be looking for that one. However it may show up on YMAA's site first for sale

 

[Formosa Neijia]

I hope they do as well, I will be looking for that one. However it may show up on YMAA's site first for sale

How very perceptive of you!

I asked on their forum yesterday and was told it would be part of their anniversary DVD. So no youtube. Oh well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I asked on their forum yesterday and was told it would be part of their anniversary DVD.

:lfao:

Why am I not surprised. Apparently $90,000 for ten years study is not enough to pay the bills

 

[bigfootsquatch]

:lfao:

Why am I not surprised. Apparently $90,000 for ten years study is not enough to pay the bills

I could understand paying tuition as you go, but 90,000 upfront is ludicrous.

 

[Ninebird8]

Just to state for the record, as some of you know I have three masters. My tai chi and southern white crane master is Sifu Jeff Bolt, senior student of Dr. Yang. I have learnd kung fu 31 years and Yang tai chi for 12 years. I have been to many tournaments, both as a competitor and the last 10 years as a judge, and have seen many derivations of Yang, Chen, Wu, Wu Hao, and Sun. I,too, recently read of Dr. Yang's reunitification with his teacher Gao Tao. I will tell you that at seminars Dr. Yang gave us in Houston 5-8 years ago, he does admit that some of his white crane has crept into his Yang tai chi. We have a signature move in peng liu chi on, just before press forward, where we bring the left hand back in a single whip, that I see no other Yang really do. I cannot enter the comment about Chengfu v. Banhou, as that is irrelevant to me, but I have also over the years noticed differences in the long form depending upon origination from mainland China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. As an example, my Ying Jow sifu Leung Shum also teaches Wu style tai chi. As well, Kwong Ming Lee aka Johnny Lee in Dallas, a well known Mizhong, ba gua, and Wu style teacher, teaches the Shanghai version. One of the distinctions I can tell between these two eminent martial artist in their Wu long form is one leans more forward than the other at times, and there are other approaches during the form a little different. But, alas, the basics are the same.

I was given a wonderful book several years ago from a senior in Tai chi of mine called Yang Chen Fu Tai Chi Classics. In it, there are marvelous poems of the critical movements of Yang tai chi, as well as pictures of him doing it. As he was a large man, in pics I see him do things a little different than others of the Yang family to adapt to his size relative to his other family members. As we all know, tai chi is particularly adaptable to one's own attributs and limitations, once one has learned the critical forms and the basic movements.

To the point about Dr. Yang's retreat, no argument there, though you fail to mention that if one stays the whole ten years (actually only 9 months out of each year) you are returned the $90k in full and assisted financially in opening your own school to propagate what Dr. Yang is teaching. Yes, it is expensive, but the old way is being taught. I have a Ying Jow bro in Costa Rica (the blood nephew of Leung Shum), who wants to build a retreat in Costa Rica to propagate good martial arts. I am sure it will not be cheap!

In any event, just my response. By the way, although one of my teachers, Jeff Bolt, is Dr. Yang's senior, we are not members of YMAA, DR. Yang's association, as Jeff has developed some of his own theories that he has passed on to us, including a very nice5 part two person chin na set he created to account for many of Dr. Yang's chin nas.

Everything evolves. But, like most of you, I totally agree with keeping the lineages straight and important, though over 31 years I have found that the same thing also causes so much unnecessary friction unknow to other martial arts.