Xingyi Pi Fist Breaks Stance, Subvert the Logic of Standing Combat

[windwalker099105]

Not so long ago there was a bird called a dodo, but you won’t find a video of it, nor anyone alive that has seen one.

True enough for the dodo. The real question is whether those who saw one would agree on what they saw.

Those who have touched it know what it is, even if they cannot explain it or give it a name.

Those who have kept one as a pet know exactly what it is and what it needs.
At that point, knowing the name becomes less important than understanding its nature.

The same applies here. Direct experience provides a common frame of reference. An open mind allows those without that experience to learn from those who have it. In that way, both can broaden their understanding within a shared context.

In most forums, once the subject comes up, some attempt to reframe it. Others speak from what they have heard, while some speak from direct experience. More often than not, however, it is the experience itself that is questioned or reinterpreted by those who have not had it, so that it fits within their own frame of reference.

Perhaps one of reasons many who have had similar experiences choose not to say very much. Experience is often easier to demonstrate than to defend.

 

[windwalker099105]

Although I disagree on some of his points, in general have found it to be true.
Something I had to work through, and continue with in my own work.

Like Gorge's work although never had the chance to meet him in SF..

 

[windwalker099105]

What's the combat usage of "push"? When a Taiji guy "pushes" his opponent away, does the Taiji guy punch his opponent, or throw his opponent?

- A punch is 1 point contact.
- A throw is 2/3 points contact.
- A "push" is 1 point contact which neither belong to punch nor throw.

"Internal" MA system such as Taiji created the term "push". This makes the MA discussion difficult and confused. By discussing "push" only, Taiji can avoid discussing kick/punch/lock/throw. This gradually move Taiji further away from the combat reality.

You often mention this with out without examples of why this approach is used, looking at the video below one see the difference used in approach and how the movement is expressed

It’s about how power can be expressed in a different way…
The labels provide a distinction about the practice.

The practice is really not about what is done,
but rather what it allows you to do.
Through the practice.

 

[Wing Woo Gar39]

The points and context are all mine. As you know I'm wordy person, so I had Ai to shorten my original writing so that it's easier for others to read. But if you miss my super long posts then I'll be more than happy to send people down that path again.

I like your posts. No problem here.

 

[Wing Woo Gar39]

What's the combat usage of "push"? When a Taiji guy "pushes" his opponent away, does the Taiji guy punch his opponent, or throw his opponent?

- A punch is 1 point contact.
- A throw is 2/3 points contact.
- A "push" is 1 point contact which neither belong to punch nor throw.

"Internal" MA system such as Taiji created the term "push". This makes the MA discussion difficult and confused. By discussing "push" only, Taiji can avoid discussing kick/punch/lock/throw. This gradually move Taiji further away from the combat reality.

Nobody in my Tai Chi experience has ever talked about push in this way. I understand that you don’t understand, but I’m not sure I can help you considering mine and others previously failed attempts. I punch, kick, throw, entangle, lock, trip, sweep etc in Tai Chi Chuan. This push is in the form of course.

 

[Wing Woo Gar39]

True enough for the dodo. The real question is whether those who saw one would agree on what they saw.

Those who have touched it know what it is, even if they cannot explain it or give it a name.

Those who have kept one as a pet know exactly what it is and what it needs.
At that point, knowing the name becomes less important than understanding its nature.

The same applies here. Direct experience provides a common frame of reference. An open mind allows those without that experience to learn from those who have it. In that way, both can broaden their understanding within a shared context.

In most forums, once the subject comes up, some attempt to reframe it. Others speak from what they have heard, while some speak from direct experience. More often than not, however, it is the experience itself that is questioned or reinterpreted by those who have not had it, so that it fits within their own frame of reference.

Perhaps one of reasons many who have had similar experiences choose not to say very much. Experience is often easier to demonstrate than to defend.

Perfectly well said. I could not agree more.