WTF clubs that credits General Choi as founder and/or developer of TaeKwonDo

[Gnarlie]

I can differentiate the three. A person in Seol looking for Chang Hon forms will get it in either one, and will not reject it simply because it is not ITF affiliated.

Your argument does not bear out that you understand the difference. You are making a fool of yourself again.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[andyjeffries]

I can differentiate the three. A person in Seol looking for Chang Hon forms will get it in either one, and will not reject it simply because it is not ITF affiliated.

Without wishing to resort to ad-hominum attacks, you don't seem to be able to.

I said "Ohdokwan definitely still has a presence in South Korea", you replied with "It was not an opinion that there is one ITF school located in Seol [sic] (at least at the time of writing). To call that "a presence" is pretty optimistic."

Ohdokwan and ITF are very different organisations - if you even consider the ITF one organisation, even though it's now splintered into 3-4 groups - that's funny in itself. Taekwondo was a vehicle of unification for 9-10 kwans, ITF wanted it's own way so set off doing its thing, then while the rest of Taekwondo is unified, ITF has now splintered into different groups, all claiming legitimacy. Reeks of irony!

 

[andyjeffries]

Just to post the facts, the Kukkiwon currently has 1,459 registered dojangs in Seoul. I don't know how many "thousands" were, but still it's certainly a big number. The source is a great friend of mine (student of GM Hwang - that I mentioned earlier) and Ohdokwan member ;-)

 

[Axiom]

Nope, that's a logical fallacy because Chang Hon exists outside of the ITF and has since that time.




Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

It is not a logical fallacy if one were to assume that the reporter (or whatever he is) actually knows what forms/curriculum he is looking to practise. If you want to believe that he passed on hundreds of Chang Hon schools out of ignorance and only concretated on ITF affiliations,then fine. That would however run counter to his desire to learn traditional TKD, since Sine Wave is a modern addition to Chang Hon forms.

 

[andyjeffries]

Also Axiom, you keep saying Seol, that's the incorrect spelling. Seol would be written in Korean as 설 but the correct spelling Seoul is 서울 - completely different words/names.

As a potentially slightly interesting aside, there's a Korean female grandmaster called Seol, Seong-ran who is ex-world poomsae champion and absolutely exceptional as a teacher (and funny to boot!). If any KKW Taekwondoin get the chance to train with her, grab it!

 

[Axiom]

I said "Ohdokwan definitely still has a presence in South Korea", you replied with "It was not an opinion that there is one ITF school located in Seol [sic] (at least at the time of writing). To call that "a presence" is pretty optimistic."

I want to believe in his rationality enough to conclude that he only found one school practicising the Chang Hons style of TKD in Seoul, at the time of writing, and that it was an ITF one. There's a dude from a foreign, non ITF affiliation, who had no trouble finding our ITF school. Was he a genius?

 

[Gnarlie]

It is not a logical fallacy if one were to assume that the reporter (or whatever he is) actually knows what forms/curriculum he is looking to practise. If you want to believe that he passed on hundreds of Chang Hon schools out of ignorance and only concretated on ITF affiliations,then fine. That would however run counter to his desire to learn traditional TKD, since Sine Wave is a modern addition to Chang Hon forms.

There's no way to know what he looked for, but if his Dojang in DE was ITF, he probably looked for ITF.

A lot of hobby TKD sorts don't even know the name Chang Hon. They use Tul or Hyeong. Look for those in SK, and you'll get very few results - firstly because most instructors chose to unify with KKW, and second because many of those who did not had already left SK to spread TKD to Europe and other areas. There are, however, some independent masters who remained - outside of both KKW and the ITF, they train Pyong Ahn and some earlier black belt forms, or some version of the Chang Hon set.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Axiom]

There's no way to know what he looked for, but if his Dojang in DE was ITF, he probably looked for ITF.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

He found an ITF school and concidered this a match for traditional TKD. That means he was looking for Chang Hon TKD forms/curriculum.

 

[Tez3]

they train Pyong Ahn

Is this related to Tang Soo Do? That's my other, less preferred style.

 

[Axiom]

BTW, he doesn't even need to go into the schools (neccesarily). If the practitioners wear ITF or old Karate doboks, chances are that they are doing Chang Hon patterns.

 

[Gnarlie]

He found an ITF school and concidered this a match for traditional TKD. That means he was looking for Chang Hon TKD forms/curriculum.

Not necessarily. Were you there? Are you him? No? Then you don't know what he looked for. Either way, his search was somewhat limited if Google shows 2 and I am aware of some others (non-ITF independents) in the backwaters through friends of friends.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Gnarlie]

Is this related to Tang Soo Do? That's my other, less preferred style.

Yes, these forms among others are practiced in some Tang Soo Do schools. They are the Korean rendering of the Pinan forms.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Axiom]

Is this related to Tang Soo Do? That's my other, less preferred style.

Tang Soo Do is the precursor to the TKD style being discussed. If you know Tang Soo Do you do in fact know traditional TKD without knowing it. The only difference is that you learned Shotokan forms and few other ones. and that your stances were lower.

 

[Gnarlie]

BTW, he doesn't even need to go into the schools (neccesarily). If the practitioners wear ITF or old Karate doboks, chances are that they are doing Chang Hon patterns.

You've never been to Seoul, have you haha

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Axiom]

You've never been to Seoul, have you haha

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

If they wear those godawful Adidas/KKW doboks, he doesn't need to bother. Although some schools teach several systems.

 

[Gnarlie]

If they wear those godawful Adidas/KKW doboks, he doesn't need to bother. Although some schools teach several systems.

My pyjamas are better than your pyjamas now is it?

You honestly thing every dojang in Seoul has a web page or a street facing shop window?

Pfft.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Tez3]

Tang Soo Do is the precursor to the TKD style being discussed. If you know Tang Soo Do you do in fact know traditional TKD without knowing it. The only difference is that you learned Shotokan forms and few other ones. and that your stances were lower.

My main style is Wado Ryu which uses Pinan kata, which Shotokan shares of course as Heien. Stances and techniques aren't quite the same though. The reason I'm not hugely keen on TSD is that it seems a very simplified form of Wado, I like the more complex movements plus the takedowns and ground work in Wado. I prefer the shorter higher stances of Wado as well.

 

[Axiom]

My main style is Wado Ryu which uses Pinan kata, which Shotokan shares of course. Stances and techniques aren't quite the same though. The reason I'm not hugely keen on TSD is that it seems a very simplified form of Wado, I like the more complex movements plus the takedowns and ground work in Wado. I prefer the shorter higher stances of Wado as well.

Any Tang Soo Do instructor worth his salt should have taught you some more elaborate kicking (compared to Karate), and that is TKD you learned.

 

[Axiom]

My pyjamas are better than your pyjamas now is it?

You honestly thing every dojang in Seoul has a web page or a street facing shop window?

Pfft.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

How much polyester is in those doboks? Not saying NEW ITF ones are clear of charges, but I've have had students come up to me feeling suffocated after sweating in very WTF-like doboks, and could only offer my condolences.

 

[Gnarlie]

Any Tang Soo Do instructor worth his salt should have taught you some more elaborate kicking (compared to Karate), and that is TKD you learned.

Trained TSD have you?

Here's a picture I took in Seoul. Feel free to circle all the dojangs where they don't wear Adidas.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk