would you honor your agreement?

[stickarts]

There was an article recently in a local newspaper regarding a mom who signed her son up for a 4 year contract at a martial arts school. It is one of a large chain of schools. After awhile of going, the son lost interest so the mom wanted out of the contract. According to the article, She first tried contacting the school owner via e-mail but got no response. Long story short, she ended up contacting the newspaper and the owner ended up letting her out of the contract after discussion with the mom and the reporter.
Here is my question: if you entered into a contract somewhere, health club, martial arts school, etc... and clearly understood the terms before signing and the provider was living up to their end of the agreement, would you expect to be let out of the contract if you (or your child) stopped showing up because of loss of interest or would you honor your end of the agreement and keep paying even if you didn't attend any longer?

 

[MBuzzy]

This is one of the many reasons that I don't support contracts in Martial Arts schools. I must say that personally, I would not enter into a contract such as that without an escape clause. I was in this situation before, only it wasn't because of loss of interest, work simply got too overwhelming and time prevented me from going.

I simply paid the penalty and got out of the contract. It was the equivalent of two months of dues and I was released from the contract. Four years is an extraordinarily long time for a contract like this, especially for a small child.

So to answer your question, I can't say that I would get myself into this situation. If the studio owner did not allow an escape clause, I'd find another school. I do believe that you need to pay the proper fee to get out of the contract, just like an apartment leave. You can leave early, you just pay for it. Same principle. I don't think that I would go the route of the newspaper though.

 

[crushing]

I would definately honor my end of the agreement. But at the same time, I would never enter such an extended contract, unless I was the one getting paid. I also refuse to enter evergreen contracts.

 

[stickarts]

This is one of the many reasons that I don't support contracts in Martial Arts schools. I must say that personally, I would not enter into a contract such as that without an escape clause. I was in this situation before, only it wasn't because of loss of interest, work simply got too overwhelming and time prevented me from going.

I simply paid the penalty and got out of the contract. It was the equivalent of two months of dues and I was released from the contract. Four years is an extraordinarily long time for a contract like this, especially for a small child.

So to answer your question, I can't say that I would get myself into this situation. If the studio owner did not allow an escape clause, I'd find another school. I do believe that you need to pay the proper fee to get out of the contract, just like an apartment leave. You can leave early, you just pay for it. Same principle. I don't think that I would go the route of the newspaper though.

Thanks for the response! In most cases, by law, you can escape the contract if you move more than 25 miles away or become injured, or change your mind within 3 days of the signing of the contract. ( Lots of issues can come up in 4 years and I wouldn't sign on that long either.)

 

[stickarts]

I would definately honor my end of the agreement. But at the same time, I would never enter such an extended contract, unless I was the one getting paid. I also refuse to enter evergreen contracts.

Thanks for the response! What is an evergreen contract?

 

[MBuzzy]

Thanks for the response! In most cases, by law, you can escape the contract if you move more than 25 miles away or become injured, or change your mind within 3 days of the signing of the contract. ( Lots of issues can come up in 4 years and I wouldn't sign on that long either.)

Luckily there is also a federal law saying that military orders can get you out of ANY contract.....so I'm pretty much safe!

Sometimes you can alter a contract to add in an escape clause, sometimes you can't. In my experience, many companies who hired a lawyer once and had them write the contract won't change it, because then it wouldn't have been reviewed. Those who have a lawyer on retainer will generally do it.

BUT, there is a generally held belief that if you cross something out and re write before you sign, it changes the contract. NOT TRUE. Your changes must be agreed upon and initialed by BOTH parties, not just you.

 

[MBuzzy]

Thanks for the response! What is an evergreen contract?

Basically a contract that renews it self automatically after each agreed period. To cancel it, BOTH parties must agree.

 

[jkembry]

Knowing myself...if it was for me or my kid (if I had one), I would speak with the school to see if there was an early termination clause. Most contracts I have see have one (Gyms, Wireless plans...etc.). Then I would check to see if they will accept a percentage as a termination fee. After that I would probably write it off as a lesson learned (read the contract closer) and pay it off as quickly as possible.

 

[stickarts]

Good points! I think most everyone would let you out in that case (military) anyway, or I should hope they would! Thanks for the reply.

Luckily there is also a federal law saying that military orders can get you out of ANY contract.....so I'm pretty much safe!

Sometimes you can alter a contract to add in an escape clause, sometimes you can't. In my experience, many companies who hired a lawyer once and had them write the contract won't change it, because then it wouldn't have been reviewed. Those who have a lawyer on retainer will generally do it.

BUT, there is a generally held belief that if you cross something out and re write before you sign, it changes the contract. NOT TRUE. Your changes must be agreed upon and initialed by BOTH parties, not just you.

 

[MBuzzy]

Not to contradict myself, because I still hold that I wouldn't get myself into that situation.......BUT, if I did.......

I really hate to say this, because knowing that I'll someday start teaching and hate people like me....but if I did get myself into this situation. I have to be honest, I don't think that I'd pay out the contract. I'd feel bad, but that is a lot of money to pay for something your kids loses interest in. I would probably pay for a few months, until I thought that I'd paid what was fair.

But in my mind, the school owner only loses a student, a small fraction. I am by no means putting him out of business. The worst that he can do is send my account to a payment collection agency - but I would be surprised to know if he even went to the trouble for stuff like that.

 

[stickarts]

Basically a contract that renews it self automatically after each agreed period. To cancel it, BOTH parties must agree.

Thanks. No, I don't like that arrangement either.

 

[harlan]

I'd ask to be let out. If they were dicks about it...then they would have a new student. Me. And I'd make a point of getting my money's worth.

 

[stickarts]

Not to contradict myself, because I still hold that I wouldn't get myself into that situation.......BUT, if I did.......

I really hate to say this, because knowing that I'll someday start teaching and hate people like me....but if I did get myself into this situation. I have to be honest, I don't think that I'd pay out the contract. I'd feel bad, but that is a lot of money to pay for something your kids loses interest in. I would probably pay for a few months, until I thought that I'd paid what was fair.

But in my mind, the school owner only loses a student, a small fraction. I am by no means putting him out of business. The worst that he can do is send my account to a payment collection agency - but I would be surprised to know if he even went to the trouble for stuff like that.

It depends on if the school is hooked up with a billing company or not and which one. Some of the billing companies get pretty nasty about it.
I keep our agreements between me and the client and don't usually involve a third party with disputes. I also don't offer extremely long term contracts so disputes don't often happen.

 

[terryl965]

Well here is my take on this contracts for MA school I personnally do not believe in for these reasons:

1) People are not committed to naything for the most parts

2) The economy sucks and to many people get laid off

3) If I am doing my job right they will stay

4) I believe and let me rephase this I Believe contract are needed for those that do not have enough confidence in there ability to keep students. Believe me I know some great instructors that uses them and I dis-agree with them all the time.

5) this is my last one just because it is wrong.

 

[stickarts]

I'd ask to be let out. If they were dicks about it...then they would have a new student. Me. And I'd make a point of getting my money's worth.

LOL! Thanks for the reply!

 

[terryl965]

Oh sorry by the way if I personally sign a contract I would honor it, my word and integrity is worth more than the money I promise to that individual. I am also surprise others have not brought up that point, we teach it everyday to our students.

 

[stickarts]

Well here is my take on this contracts for MA school I personnally do not believe in for these reasons:

1) People are not committed to naything for the most parts

2) The economy sucks and to many people get laid off

3) If I am doing my job right they will stay

4) I believe and let me rephase this I Believe contract are needed for those that do not have enough confidence in there ability to keep students. Believe me I know some great instructors that uses them and I dis-agree with them all the time.

5) this is my last one just because it is wrong.

Thanks! If you did sign an agreement somewhere: a health club, college, etc.... would you still honor your agreement if you stopped attending?
( I respectfully agree to disagree on your 4th point! We have always retained our students extremely well even before agreements but starting agreements made our school better in a number of ways)
oh, I just saw you answered me in another post! Thank you!

 

[stickarts]

Oh sorry by the way if I personally sign a contract I would honor it, my word and integrity is worth more than the money I promise to that individual. I am also surprise others have not brought up that point, we teach it everyday to our students.

Kudos on the point about integrity. I feel the same way.

 

[terryl965]

Thanks! If you did sign an agreement somewhere: a health club, college, etc.... would you still honor your agreement if you stopped attending?
( I respectfully agree to disagree on your 4th point! We have always retained our students extremely well even before agreements but starting agreements made our school better in a number of ways)
oh, I just saw you answered me in another post! Thank you!

Sir I believe if they are helping than that is great and I wish more people would do the right thing with contracts. But in my area contracts are used to lock people in and then give them a fast track to BB so thay can get them on another program like become an instructor program or learn how to open and run a school. This area is full of those types. I know for a fact you are about training and not flocking the sheep kind of guy.

 

[stickarts]

Sir I believe if they are helping than that is great and I wish more people would do the right thing with contracts. But in my area contracts are used to lock people in and then give them a fast track to BB so thay can get them on another program like become an instructor program or learn how to open and run a school. This area is full of those types. I know for a fact you are about training and not flocking the sheep kind of guy.

Thank you! our students can enroll month to month with no committment, or they can sign on to a 6 month or 12 month agreement and get a discount for making a committment so its pretty flexible. No fast track to BB ever.
The agreements just keep everything clear in writing, allow us to spend more time teaching and less time doing book work and making phone calls, and help make for a professional environment since everything is in writing and they take a copy of it home with them. Also, it helps having a financial committment from students since I have a large financial committment to my landlord and a lease to pay!
I think it comes down to the integrity of the school owner and HOW the agreements are used!
I do understand the feeling against contracts since we do hear how they have also been misused.
The recent article just caught my eye because I myself would honor an agreement I made unless I felt I was mislead or if the provider was not living up to their end of the agreement. As others stated though, I would not have signed on for that long of a period in the first place.