abe_tz

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Hi everyone. My friend and I have been going back and forth over which is superior for self defense, wing chun or mma. No martial art is truly superior, however he has been relentlessly insulting Wing Chun even though he literally knows nothing about it. He told me it is the "laughing-stock" of martial arts. I thought I would seek help here for arguments as to why Wing Chun is better for self defense. Thanks.
 

mograph

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There's no way to win this argument with your friend. Really, can you think of a single thing to tell him that would convince him that he's wrong? No matter which WC guy beat up which MMA guy once, he wouldn't be convinced. No matter which WC technique has been shown to beat which MMA technique, he won't be convinced. History? Nope. Street vs. ring? Nope.

I have no idea which is better for self-defence, I'm just saying that no arguments in favour of WC would convince your friend. He has too much invested in his beliefs.

Wise martial artists appreciate each other's style and learn from each other. Your friend doesn't sound like this kind of person. I'd just let it drop.
 
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Steve

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Wong chun is better than MMA, unless you're in a situation where MMA is better. Than MMA is better. Unless it's not; then it isn't.
 
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abe_tz

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There's no way to win this argument with your friend. Really, can you think of a single thing to tell him that would convince him that he's wrong? No matter which WC guy beat up which MMA guy once, he wouldn't be convinced. No matter which WC technique has been shown to beat which MMA technique, he won't be convinced. History? Nope. Street vs. ring? Nope.

I have no idea which is better for self-defence, I'm just saying that no arguments in favour of WC would convince your friend. He has too much invested in his beliefs.

Wise martial artists appreciate each other's style and learn from each other. Your friend doesn't sound like this kind of person. I'd just let it drop.
are you sure you dont know him? that is quite an accurate description.
 

mograph

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Wong chun is better than MMA, unless you're in a situation where MMA is better. Than MMA is better. Unless it's not; then it isn't.
Damn your logic! I must seek revenge!

:D
 

Danny T

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Wong chun is better than MMA, unless you're in a situation where MMA is better. Than MMA is better. Unless it's not; then it isn't.
NO!! You are Wrong!
Everyone with any sense knows that it is; "MMA is better than Wing Chun, unless you're in a situation where Wing Chun is better. Then Wing Chun is better."
I'm correct in this because I'm not wrong you are, unless we're in a situation where you are correct. Then I'm wrong.
So get right.
 

Phobius

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So to conclude. If someone is *crazy enough to fight for a living, in for instance UFC, he is probably someone you should not attack on the street. (*crazy as in it is a gamble in terms of cash and health)

Long fighting experience trumps style. Most arguments always brings up UFC or fights of that nature and compare them to an average joe training a traditional martial art. Truth is if you fight a fighter, expect to lose while always go for win. Some day you might win or simply you continue to train until the day you realize you are one of those fighters as well.
 
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wckf92

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Wong chun is better than MMA, unless you're in a situation where MMA is better. Than MMA is better. Unless it's not; then it isn't.

61655789.jpg
 

Wing Chun Auckland

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Sorry to bring some seriousness to this playful discussion which I admit is highly amusing. And this argument has been done to death I know. But something came to my mind about this the other day.

So I wonder how much the MMA fighter's image is engraved into out consciousness or/and maybe subconsciousness. When I think MMA, I can't help but think some cut dude with tats and elite level fitness and conditioning. In fact, I usually unconsciously bring up an image of a famous fighter. How much of this imagery is burnt into our consciousness and how much does this influence our views and opinions about MMA as a method?

Because if someone said to me "You will never be able to beat Conor MacGreggor with wing chun" (I actually remember someone saying something like this to me before but a different fighter) ..... well newsflash buddy! I wouldn't be able to beat Conor MacGreggor even if I did MMA!

But I agree arguments like these are dumb.
 

yak sao

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Sorry to bring some seriousness to this playful discussion which I admit is highly amusing. And this argument has been done to death I know. But something came to my mind about this the other day.

So I wonder how much the MMA fighter's image is engraved into out consciousness or/and maybe subconsciousness. When I think MMA, I can't help but think some cut dude with tats and elite level fitness and conditioning. In fact, I usually unconsciously bring up an image of a famous fighter. How much of this imagery is burnt into our consciousness and how much does this influence our views and opinions about MMA as a method?

Because if someone said to me "You will never be able to beat Conor MacGreggor with wing chun" (I actually remember someone saying something like this to me before but a different fighter) ..... well newsflash buddy! I wouldn't be able to beat Conor MacGreggor even if I did MMA!

But I agree arguments like these are dumb.

My old si-fu addressed this once. He said that an argument like this is rubbish because you aren't going to be fighting a professional level fighter.
He said don't be concerned because your opponent knows a little boxing or a little wrestling or whatever. He said, so what, you know a little wing tsun. Train it to the point where they have to worry about what you do.
 

Zeny

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The guy in blue is an extremely skilled wc practitioner. Watch how he spars.
 

wckf92

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The guy in blue is an extremely skilled wc practitioner. Watch how he spars.

Are you the guy in blue?

Is this what you believe 'sparring' is?
 

Phobius

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If anything that would be a preparation for sparring, at least I hope this is not considered sparring.

Can see the value in mentally teach your students to become more aggressive and perhaps this could lead to such a behavioural change but then I hope it increases in intensity with time. (Increased intensity of above I would still not consider sparring but rather, if your student may learn to not see himself as being picked on but rather trying to pick on his opponent that would be a win)
 

Tez3

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This is the same thread as posted in the self defence section.
 

Zeny

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If that guy in blue is me, why would i refer to myself in the third person or praise myself?

That blue dude is a 3 times sanda champion. Have you joined any competition, let alone win one? Below is a whole list of his qualifications, copied from their facebook page:

1989 started practicing Ving Tsun under the coaching of Master Wong Shun Leung.
1997 Assisted in the establishment of the Ving Tsun Martial Arts Institute.
2001 Participated in Hong Kong Wushu Sanda Opens and gained recognition for 3 consecutive years
2004 Invited to join the HKSAR Sanda Team and represented Hong Kong to participate in the 7th World Wushu Championships
2004 to 2010 Participated in mnore than 10 contest of Sanda, Kick-boxing and various kinds of ring games since then until 2010.
2009 Acquired the Level 1 Instructor recognition awarded by the Hong Kong Wing Chun Union.
2010 Acquired the Level 2 Instructor recognition awarded by the Hong Kong Wing Chun Union.
2010 Founded Pure Ving Tsun (PVT Group)
2010 Invited to coach Ving Tsun at the HKSAR Customs and Excise Martial Arts Club
2011 Invited to coach Ving Tsun at PCCW Recreation Club
2011 Invited to coach Kick-Boxing at PCCW Credit Union
2011 Invited to coach Ving Tsun at the Hong Kong Craigengower Cricket Club
2012 Participated as a co-host of Kung Fu Quest II TV programme Produced by RTHK
2012 Invited to be Ving Tsun Instructor by the Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups
2012 Acquired Ving Tsun Instructor Certificate from Ving Tsun Athletic Association
co-host of Kung Fu Quest II TV programme produced by RTHK, 憭怠喳II銋唳皝:敶X祆

My point is this is one good example how traditional wc looks like in a close range fight. It looks like boxing but with some differences. Most chunners merely do chi sau and believe they can take on the world.
 
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Danny T

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If that guy in blue is me, why would i refer to myself in the third person or praise myself?

That blue dude is a 3 times sanda champion. Have you joined any competition, let alone win one? Below is a whole list of his qualifications, copied from their facebook page:

1989 started practicing Ving Tsun under the coaching of Master Wong Shun Leung.
1997 Assisted in the establishment of the Ving Tsun Martial Arts Institute.

He trained for about 6 years and opened a training facility. Great.

2001 Participated in Hong Kong Wushu Sanda Opens and gained recognition for 3 consecutive years
Participated and received a certificate/medal/or trophy for having participated. Yeah.

2004 Invited to join the HKSAR Sanda Team and represented Hong Kong to participate in the 7th World Wushu Championships
2004 to 2010 Participated in mnore than 10 contest of Sanda, Kick-boxing and various kinds of ring games since then until 2010.

Again participated in some contests or sport competitions. Good for him.

2009 Acquired the Level 1 Instructor recognition awarded by the Hong Kong Wing Chun Union.
2010 Acquired the Level 2 Instructor recognition awarded by the Hong Kong Wing Chun Union.

Congratulations your hard work is paying off.

2010 Founded Pure Ving Tsun (PVT Group)

Founded an new training group

2010 Invited to coach Ving Tsun at the HKSAR Customs and Excise Martial Arts Club
2011 Invited to coach Ving Tsun at PCCW Recreation Club
2011 Invited to coach Kick-Boxing at PCCW Credit Union
2011 Invited to coach Ving Tsun at the Hong Kong Craigengower Cricket Club

Was a guest instructor or a paid seminar/workshop instructor. Good for him hope all had an excellent time.

2012 Participated as a co-host of Kung Fu Quest II TV programme Produced by RTHK
Nice, got some good marketing from that I'm sure.

2012 Invited to be Ving Tsun Instructor by the Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups
Another seminar/workshop instructing opportunity.

2012 Acquired Ving Tsun Instructor Certificate from Ving Tsun Athletic Association
Congratulations again. Keep up the good work.

co-host of Kung Fu Quest II TV programme produced by RTHK.
Market as much as you can. Great for name and face recognition.

IMy point is this is one good example how traditional wc looks like in a close range fight. It looks like boxing but with some differences. Most chunners merely do chi sau and believe they can take on the world.
My opinion is this is nothing more than an example of heavy chi sao, poon sao exercising. Giving and taking. Nothing more.
 
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