Wing Chun just doesn't look right!

[yak sao]

food for thought, emin boztepe is clearly an excellant chunner, but please would ne1 be talking bout him if he didn't challenge Cheung.

Maybe not. Would anyone really be doing WT,WC,VT, or have heard of Yip Man if it weren't for Bruce Lee.

The thing is, certain things thrust you into the limelight. It's what you have backing you up when you get there that makes you either a shooting star or an enduring presence.

 

[Dansel]

The difference there is that bruce lee, was a movie star who introduced wing chun to the west. Yip man has many great students, who all have fame in the martial arts world for their skill alone. Yip Man and Bruce Lee are in a differnt league than Boztepe.

I think the real question is would you have heard of Boztepe if william cheung hadn't chose to do martial arts. Furthermore it wasn't a great fight neway, against someone who has said alot of controversial things and made alot of outrageous claims, as people from the majority of lineages agree.

 

[geezer]

[quote=Dansel;1055409] Yip Man and Bruce Lee are in a differnt league than Boztepe...
I think the real question is would you have heard of Boztepe if william cheung hadn't chose to do martial arts...

Yep, Emin Boztepe would be well known with or without the William Cheung fight. Some people are like that. They seek the limelight...and if they have what it takes, the limelight seeks them.

As far as being in a different league...well it's like comparing apples and oranges. As a natural fighter rather than a technical wizard, perhaps it would be better to comapare Emin to Grandmaster Yip's first teacher, Chan Wah Shun.

Finally, call me cynical, but I don't think anybody in the Martial Arts gets famous through skill alone... they either promote themselves or somebody else promotes them and builds their rep. Great skill and great humility will keep you teaching a lucky few in your backyard. Anonymously.

 

[dungeonworks]

Aside from Cheung, who has Boztepe ever fought? I cannot find anything on the web about his fighting history or their opponents other than fighting with racists in his youth over his ethnicity (fighting solves everything! LOL).

I seen the video of he and Cheung fighting and for the life of me cannot understand the significance of it. It was a terrible fight and not any better than most of the fights on YouTube. Bullshido and other WC/WC hating sites always reffer to it when bashing our style. I have seen some bits of his videos and he apears to be a phenominal physical specimen and noticed he is an actor as well. It would be my guess he became famous as an actor and martial artist...but really, so far as I know he is only famous in the small Wing Tsun/Wing Chun world. Nobody outside the Kwoon knows who he really is here in Midwestern USA.

 

[qwksilver61]

Well, consider that he was one of Sifu Keith Kernspecht's top students,often found teaching at seminars across Europe while under Sifu's watchful eye.Who would lie about that? He is still a practician level master,and does not lay folly of calling himself a Grand-master.I did do some homework.Yes there is not much in the way of Wing Tsun in the midwest,I grew up primarily in
St louis.There is a Wing Tsun school in Illinois. I found Leung Ting Wing Tsun while in the middle of BFE in Billings,MT. go figure.....There are a lot of Famous things overseas we here in the USA do not know or find out about until later.Kwon Jae Hwa's the real shizznit Tae Kwon Do for instance,was all but unknown to the USA for the longest time.First Europe then the USA that is how it has always been,as far as I know.
Wing Tsun Europe in the 70's...later the States.....blah...blah....blah..

 

[KamonGuy2]

Aside from Cheung, who has Boztepe ever fought? I cannot find anything on the web about his fighting history or their opponents other than fighting with racists in his youth over his ethnicity (fighting solves everything! LOL).

I seen the video of he and Cheung fighting and for the life of me cannot understand the significance of it. It was a terrible fight and not any better than most of the fights on YouTube. Bullshido and other WC/WC hating sites always reffer to it when bashing our style. I have seen some bits of his videos and he apears to be a phenominal physical specimen and noticed he is an actor as well. It would be my guess he became famous as an actor and martial artist...but really, so far as I know he is only famous in the small Wing Tsun/Wing Chun world. Nobody outside the Kwoon knows who he really is here in Midwestern USA.

Thats the trouble with wing chun - it isn't a sport so you can't record fights like say boxing or kickboxing
The clips I have seen of Boztepe have impressed me. I have one of him doing chi sao on my phone
Personally, I couldn't care if he hasn't had a fight - it wouldn't make him any less good at wing chun!

My master Kevin Chan was a very well known streetfighter when he was younger and has no problem taking someone aside who starts on him
Yet I doubt you will find any record of his fights
All I know is, I would never take the guy on!

The Boztepe Cheung fight for me was a great moment. Some people simply need to be put in their place
I love to learn and I would never for one moment proclaim to have secret techniques or be the only one true style of wing chun
Boztepe spoke for all the wing chun guys out there and I thank him for doing that
The fight was a mess, but that's how fights that have no rules are!!!

 

[paulus]

I have one of him doing chi sao on my phone

Phones don't hit back

The Boztepe Cheung fight for me was a great moment. Some people simply need to be put in their place

It's a shame the footage isn't a little clearer, it's hard to see what's going on there. I've seen other clips where EB looks very fluid.

 

[bully]

Phones don't hit back


It's a shame the footage isn't a little clearer, it's hard to see what's going on there. I've seen other clips where EB looks very fluid.

Just imagining Bruce saying that....

 

[Dansel]

Well, consider that he was one of Sifu Keith Kernspecht's top students,often found teaching at seminars across Europe while under Sifu's watchful eye.

the only famous person known outside the wt lineage is leung ting, noobody really knows anything bout boztepe and kernspect unless u talk to a wt'er and to compare boztepe to a ma historical figure is hilarious, in 100 years people will still have heard of bruce lee, yip man, chan wa shun and no one will no of william cheung ,emin who? and kernspect who?

There are many wc'ers and vt'ers who r famous for there skill alone, wt is the only lineage that encourage self promotion and seeking lime light.

 

[Dansel]

p.s the only true masters are those who have proved there skills in many fights, people like wong shun leung, tsui sheung tin and all of the other fathers and mothers of the style. U can add as many clips as u want shwing chi sao and other demo's a thousand of which aren't worth knowledge of one clear cut fight.

 

[dungeonworks]

Thats the trouble with wing chun - it isn't a sport so you can't record fights like say boxing or kickboxing
The clips I have seen of Boztepe have impressed me. I have one of him doing chi sao on my phone
Personally, I couldn't care if he hasn't had a fight - it wouldn't make him any less good at wing chun!

I remember reading about him having a great number of fights and challenge type matches. I thought maybe there was a video somewhere, maybe like the Gracie's did in "Gracie Jiujitsu in action". Speaking of Gracies and Boztepe, I heard something to the effect that they would not fight him or vice versa???

The Boztepe Cheung fight for me was a great moment. Some people simply need to be put in their place
I love to learn and I would never for one moment proclaim to have secret techniques or be the only one true style of wing chun
Boztepe spoke for all the wing chun guys out there and I thank him for doing that
The fight was a mess, but that's how fights that have no rules are!!!

Interesting back story to that. I never knew all that other than Boztepe challenged Cheung at a seminar. What I meant was that the fight itself was bad....be it Wing Chun/Wing Tsun or anyother martial art of any name. With all due respect, it looked like a playground brawl.

 

[geezer]

in 100 years people will still have heard of bruce lee, yip man, chan wa shun and no one will no of william cheung ,emin who? and kernspect who?

There are many wc'ers and vt'ers who r famous for there skill alone, wt is the only lineage that encourage self promotion and seeking lime light.

Who knows if anybody will even remember Wing Chun in 100 years? If they remember anyone, it might be Bruce Lee. If Wing Chun is still practiced, it will be the"ancestors" of the lineages, such as Great Grandmaster Yip and his forebearers who live on in legend.

But I daresay that if Wing Chun is practiced a century from now, it will be in part due to the efforts of those who have worked to spread it, systematize it's training, and move it forward as a fighting system that is applicable in modern times. Leung Ting, Keith Kernspecht and Emin Boztepe are among those who have done just that. My hat is off to all of them.

Finally, I'm glad you find my comments "hillarious". I'm always pleased to amuse, Dansel. And give my best to Gretel.

 

[qwksilver61]

Dansel ,What is your linneage?Who is your Sifu?Have you ever attended a WT seminar?Just questions

 

[Dansel]

Geezer, again i chuckle, it is a style that has been practiced for hundreds of years already, and i will still be practiced by by somebody in another hundred years, even it it isn't as popular as it is now, and those practitioners will learn the history.

I'm not trying to wind u up here, i think WT is as an efficient fighting system as any lineage, just don't like the structure and brand that goes with it my main lineage is TST but i have studied WT for about a year as well, and respect many good fighters there, as i have seen them prove themselves and don't seek attention for it.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I remember reading about him having a great number of fights and challenge type matches. I thought maybe there was a video somewhere, maybe like the Gracie's did in "Gracie Jiujitsu in action". Speaking of Gracies and Boztepe, I heard something to the effect that they would not fight him or vice versa???.

Yeah there was a lot of talk (when the UFC first started) from Bozteppi that the Gracies weren't that good etc, and it got all heated. For ages they would invite him down to their dojo or come to his but it never happened. Why it never happened was ever explained. Maybe the Gracies backed down or maybe Bozteppis backed down
It is entirely possible that Bozteppi didn't want to get a reputation for accepting challenge matches (once you go down that road, you would get every Tom Dick and Harry knocking at your door)

He is a known streetfighter but like I said you can't exactly record that - same as Bruce Lee. But I don't need a fight history to tell me that Bruce Lee was a good fighter and great martial artist!

Interesting back story to that. I never knew all that other than Boztepe challenged Cheung at a seminar. What I meant was that the fight itself was bad....be it Wing Chun/Wing Tsun or anyother martial art of any name. With all due respect, it looked like a playground brawl.

But that is what fighting looks like when there aren't any rules!!
UFC only looks that way because they are coming out from oposite sides of the cage, know what each other does and trains in, and following set rules
In a street fight, anything can happen. If you took two UFC fighters and got them into a nightclub brawl, it would look a mess. Doesn't mean that they aren't technically good fighters. Its just that there are no rules to make it look 'tidy'. I think that is what shocked Cheung. Because he expected it to be like traditional rooftop matches etc.