Will Tracy Kenpo History Articles Link (AWESOME!)

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M.C. Busman

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Here is the history of Kenpo most people don't hear in school
These articles disappeared from the main Tracy web site several years ago--parts 4 & 5 were not originally made available to the public. If you've ever wondered about Jimmy Wing Woo's (not the same Jimmy Woo of San Soo Kung Fu) contributions to American Kenpo, his time with Ed Parker, etc. this is what you've been waiting for (see sections 4 & 5).

Some people consider these articles (and Will Tracy--but that's a whole other story) controversial, you must decide for yourself. The 5 part series is superb. I recommend printing 'em out, makin' yourself comfortable, and reading 'em with a glass of tea or some sherry. Or a beer.

http://www.sanjosekenpo.com./articles.htm

Make yourself @ home :D


Happy Labor Day,

:) M.C. Busman :)
 

GAB

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Hi, Yes it is really informative, I have to hand it to Dr Sumner for posting them,
considering they are pretty derogatory, regarding some of the dirty tactics that go along with building empires.:flame:

Thanks for throwing in your oar.

Regards, Gary:asian:
 

Brian Jones

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Its informative. But its also biased. Not that there is anythig worng with that. One has to remember that this is simply Will Tracy's take on what has happened. And some of what he has written simply isn't true. For instance the idea that None of the seniors were with him by 1980. We know that's false. It also seems that he gives Mitose more credit than he deserves (see some of the other "Mitose" threads.
His opinions on Kenpo I can live with. I don't agree with them, but I can live with them. What bothers me is how Will Tracy seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. He does a lot of I loved Ed Parker, let me tell you what a flawed human being he was.

Brian Jones
 

Doc

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M.C. Busman said:
Here is the history of Kenpo most people don't hear in school
These articles disappeared from the main Tracy web site several years ago--parts 4 & 5 were not originally made available to the public. If you've ever wondered about Jimmy Wing Woo's (not the same Jimmy Woo of San Soo Kung Fu) contributions to American Kenpo, his time with Ed Parker, etc. this is what you've been waiting for (see sections 4 & 5).

Some people consider these articles (and Will Tracy--but that's a whole other story) controversial, you must decide for yourself. The 5 part series is superb. I recommend printing 'em out, makin' yourself comfortable, and reading 'em with a glass of tea or some sherry. Or a beer.

http://www.sanjosekenpo.com./articles.htm

Make yourself @ home :D


Happy Labor Day,

:) M.C. Busman :)

A bunch of crap that surfaces every few years. I wonder why Will never talks about he and his wife's stint in L.A. Superior Court as felony defendants. Public records tell all.
 

Goldendragon7

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Brian Jones said:
What bothers me is how Will Tracy seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. He does a lot of I loved Ed Parker, let me tell you what a flawed human being he was. Brian Jones
YEP! Interesting how these never surfaced until after his death......LOL another case of "Let the reader beware".

:asian:
 

satans.barber

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I stopped reading when I got to the bit about how 'American Kenpo obviously doesn't work because it's never produced a World class fighter', um, Benny Urquidez held 6 World championships didn't he?

Ian.
 

John Bishop

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satans.barber said:
I stopped reading when I got to the bit about how 'American Kenpo obviously doesn't work because it's never produced a World class fighter', um, Benny Urquidez held 6 World championships didn't he?

Ian.

There were/are several world class EPAK fighters. But, Benny Urquidez is a Kajukenbo man. His instructor was GM Bill Ryusaki, who was under John Leoning, who was under Adriano Emperado.
 

Rob Broad

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Well thats an half an hour of my life I will never get back. It is funny how people are so brave to post this stuff long after Ed Parker has passed away.

I studied the Tracy system up until 4th degree Black Belt, and quantity does not replace quality. I still have all of the original Tracy tapes, and the nstructor series tapes. It is funny how history seemed to re-write itself to fit Al's needs. It os amazing how easily he can remove people from his organization on just a whim, like their training and contributions never existed.

As for Will Tracy's claim to fame, he more know as the Leader Of A Church of Sex. I still remember seeing thestory on Hard Copy years ago. Him and his wife ran the this church where it was part fo the religous doctrine for its parishoners to sleep with those that the church ordered. Nice Mid-Life crisis, when it is time for my Mid-Life crisis I will buy a flashy car.

I like how easy it is for Mr. will Tracy to point of all of the thing he claims Ed Parker had done, but won't even mention all of the Tracy's Kenpo's history, and all of the skeletons in their closet.

Again I say 30 minutes of my life I will never get back.
 
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M.C. Busman

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Doc wrote: "A bunch of crap that surfaces every few years. I wonder why Will never talks about he and his wife's stint in L.A. Superior Court as felony defendants. Public records tell all."

Rob wrote (in part): "As for Will Tracy's claim to fame, he more know as the Leader Of A Church of Sex. I still remember seeing thestory on Hard Copy years ago. Him and his wife ran the this church where it was part fo the religous doctrine for its parishoners to sleep with those that the church ordered. Nice Mid-Life crisis, when it is time for my Mid-Life crisis I will buy a flashy car."

I have an article or two on this. I recall that it was simply a ploy to make money through prostitution, using religion as an excuse. "Initiate" men would pay a monetary fee, have sex w/ the "goddess" (his wife), and thus become members of the "church". The court did not buy the Tracy arguement:D But I digress.

I consider articles #4 & #5 "AWESOME" for the credit someone (even if it is "Weird" Will Tracy) finally gives to James Wing Woo (no relation to San Soo's Jimmy Woo) for how he helped form American Kenpo. Woo got a raw deal, and until Tracy posted this info 8 or so years ago, it was just one of those whispered things that no-one really wanted to confirm or deny. Well, it should be acknowledged. It happened, it is part of our history.

Yeah, Will Tracy is free with his opinion. He shows some biases. Maybe his memory isn't perfect, but I feel (opinion) that this series has a ring of honesty to it, it is clearly a personal narrative of personal recollections (and not an annotated study). It's purpose was to present information which has hitherto been considered "secret" by many seniors. It is a pity that some other seniors from that era chose to go with revised and simpified histories, or let their memories die with them.

Brian wrote: "He does a lot of I loved Ed Parker, let me tell you what a flawed human being he was."

I don't know if presenting Ed Parker (or any other human being, martial artist or not) as a perfect being would be doing anyone a favor. Sure, Ed Parker had flaws. He did some AWESOME things, he made some mistakes. Mistakes and feuds don't generally make it into print--at least not in magazines who strive to sell lots of advert space and keep readership high. Everyone has "mixed reviews" somewhere in their file. So, let's consider the flaws. We don't have to duplicate them or condone them. But we shouldn't hide 'em either.

I would have been much more surprised had there been no upheavals, no struggle, no jockying for position and power in American Kenpo (as with all other martial arts and many sports). These things exist in every organization--even the ones that claim to be pacifistic and peace loving. Desire for power and security is natural in most people. Did Will Tracy love Ed Parker as a teacher, as a friend? The two had a lot in common, and spent a lot of time together. Obviously the men were friends, in spite of Will Tracy & wife's lifestyle. I wouldn't criticize Will's individual memories of Parker and what he can recall any more that Leilani Parker's.


Keep it in Perspective,

M.C. Busman
 

Goldendragon7

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M.C. Busman said:
I consider articles #4 & #5 "AWESOME" for the credit someone (even if it is "Weird" Will Tracy) finally gives to James Wing Woo for how he helped form American Kenpo.
M.C. Busman
I don't know that I would use the word Awesome.... if James Wing Woo is so worried about it.... why doesn't he speak up himself on the issue.... this speaks volumes to me on the intestinal fortitude that he must have. Why he needs a 3rd party mouthpiece is beyond me! Those in the know, realize the strong contributions that James Wing Woo assisted Ed Parker with in the early days just the same as many others throughout the next 3 + decades of Ed Parker innovations and advancements in what came to be known as Ed Parker's American Kenpo. If this is all that you wanted, it could have been handled much better and with a great deal more tact.

I'm glad you admit and refer to him as "Weird Will", this is a much more accurate description of the man. Much of what he writes is either wrong or twisted, yes there are shreds of truth (I agree on some) but to go to this length 8 years after Ed Parker passed is gutless, and those that continue to post this garbage are as well. No respect will be given to those that resort to this type of trashing THE individual that put us ALL on the map!!!

Business must be hurting in Kentucky and Washington. LOL

:asian:
 

Goldendragon7

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John Bishop said:
There were/are several world class EPAK fighters. But, Benny Urquidez is a Kajukenbo man. His instructor was GM Bill Ryusaki, who was under John Leoning, who was under Adriano Emperado.
Thanks John you are correct even though Arnold and the clan had a close relationship with Ed Parker.

Steve "Nasty" Anderson (under Orned "Chicken" Gabriel out of San Diego) dominated the National and World Tournament scene for several years!! He was a Kenpoist!!!!!!!!
%-}
 

satans.barber

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John Bishop said:
There were/are several world class EPAK fighters. But, Benny Urquidez is a Kajukenbo man. His instructor was GM Bill Ryusaki, who was under John Leoning, who was under Adriano Emperado.

Was he? My mistake then, I though he'd trained under SGM Parker. He's a talented guy, both in the ring and on screen, kudos.

Ian.
 

John Bishop

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Goldendragon7 said:
Thanks John you are correct even though Arnold and the clan had a close relationship with Ed Parker.

%-}
Very true. There was, and for the most part still is a very strong brotherhood between the EPAK guys and Kajukenbo. SGM Parker, GM Ryuzaki and his students (the Urquidez family, Dan Guzman, etc) all shared workouts, luau's and good times.
 

Doc

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John Bishop said:
Very true. There was, and for the most part still is a very strong brotherhood between the EPAK guys and Kajukenbo. SGM Parker, GM Ryuzaki and his students (the Urquidez family, Dan Guzman, etc) all shared workouts, luau's and good times.

Very true. I did a video with Bill Ryuzaki and Benny last year. We had a ball on the set with Benny playing practical jokes on me during rehersals while Bill Ryuzaki laughed at us. Back in the day, when you came up against a black gi, more likely it was a Kajukenbo guy long before Kenpo went to black gi's. You knew you had a fight on your hands, and even if you won you still got beat up. Much respect.
 
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M.C. Busman

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Doc wrote:"I don't know that I would use the word Awesome.... if James Wing Woo is so worried about it.... why doesn't he speak up himself on the issue.... this speaks volumes to me on the intestinal fortitude that he must have. Why he needs a 3rd party mouthpiece is beyond me!"

Plenty of folks choose not to talk about their experiences--especially negative ones. Especially in the martial arts, there is a great deal of effort put into concealing factual history to present saleable squeaky-clean images. This doesn't necessitate the rest of us pretending nothing happened, and sweeping the facts back under the rug.

Doc wrote: " Those in the know, realize the strong contributions that James Wing Woo assisted Ed Parker with in the early days just the same as many others throughout the next 3 + decades of Ed Parker innovations and advancements in what came to be known as Ed Parker's American Kenpo. If this is all that you wanted, it could have been handled much better and with a great deal more tact."

But it didn't happen. Tact or no. How would the politically correct version of what happened between Mr. Woo and Mr. Parker go? Maybe just say things didn't work out, and leave out the truth about the man being used and completely dependent upon Mr. Parker? Maybe you can write a tactful version for us?

Ed Parker's art, American Kenpo, is still an evolving art. Just like Jigoro Kano's judo, James Mitose's Kenpo (Kosho or earlier), Chang T'ung Sheng's Shuai Jiao, and virtually all other martial arts. Very few martial arts progress from one generation through to the next without some modification, alteration, addition or deletion. But many of Those in The Know are just as happy when someone else speaks the truth. Finally and openly. Personally, I think history is just that--history. It certainly shouldn't drive intelligent people away from what is a very effective defensive art (Kenpo).

Doc wrote: "I'm glad you admit and refer to him as "Weird Will", this is a much more accurate description of the man.

I never sought to defend his personality or character, or any of the odder...facts and events with which he has been concerned (LIKE the sex-as-religion-rather-than-prostitution-that-a-judge-didn't-buy). BUT the man was close to Ed Parker. He isn't active with Tracy's Kenpo (as far as any of us know), and his recollections seem honest and valuable. Many of his claims are supported by the fact, and he appears to have gone to great lengths to explain things from his perspective. I certainly wouldn't go so far as calling what Will wrote a "perfect history". It is personal, it is unpopular with many people (who weren't there either)...and it is right...there.

Doc wrote: "Much of what he writes is either wrong or twisted, yes there are shreds of truth (I agree on some) but to go to this length 8 years after Ed Parker passed is gutless, and those that continue to post this garbage are as well."

Feel free to point out where "Weird" Will Tracy is wrong or rebutt what he has written. I for one will read with interest, and would rather know wrong for wrong. That Ed Parker has passed is no reason to simply deny the facts and pretend the man was perfect, or a diety (or completely deviod of ethics). Should we forget about Watergate because Nixon is dead and speak only sweet nothings of him?!! Come on, this is neither realistic nor of service in the long run. Sooner or later the facts surface. Why not acknowledge and confront them early on? Why acknowledge only what one thinks is good or beneficial? Why should the rest of us be content with the meagre tidbits certain others have decided are...enough? I for one do not desire censor. Ed Parker's legacy is not diminished by the fact he was less than perfect on several occasions. SO what? He was a man! This is martial arts, friends--real life--not a sanatized propaganda legend.

Doc wrote: "No respect will be given to those that resort to this type of trashing THE individual that put us ALL on the map!!!"

So we can have only happy thoughts? Someone contributes something grand and suddenly they are off limits? C'mon. That is downright silly. Telling the truth isn't "trashing" just because some people find it bothersome. This seems to be a gross overreaction.

Well, people are free to have your own happy thoughts. I don't fear history--happy and not. It's better to keep on reading, interviewing, studying, and sharing. As long as people consider these things with intelligence and skepticism (good and bad), we should be o.k.

I appreciate history for history's sake. Good, bad, ugly...regardless. I'm not in the business of worrying about whether of not I offend anyone, or whether or not people care to "respect" me or not. I grew out of that a loong time ago. If I wanted respect, I'd write the happy-happy-joy-joy articles we so frequently see in newsstand martial arts magazines. Facts are facts. If you decide to take personal offense at something with is a matter of study, that is one's personal choice. If you come across a version of history which you know is wrong, you are free to dispute. Just calling it "bad" and castigating those who read or share it won't solve anything.


Take Care,

M.C. Busman
 

Goldendragon7

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LOL, It just occurred to me...... You can't do battle with an unarmed opponent...... :idunno:


So who is more foolish..... THE FOOL or the FOOL arguing with the FOOL....

Pitts off......:)
 

Doc

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M.C. Busman said:
Doc wrote:"I don't know that I would use the word Awesome.... if James Wing Woo is so worried about it.... why doesn't he speak up himself on the issue.... this speaks volumes to me on the intestinal fortitude that he must have. Why he needs a 3rd party mouthpiece is beyond me!"

Plenty of folks choose not to talk about their experiences--especially negative ones. Especially in the martial arts, there is a great deal of effort put into concealing factual history to present saleable squeaky-clean images. This doesn't necessitate the rest of us pretending nothing happened, and sweeping the facts back under the rug.

Doc wrote: " Those in the know, realize the strong contributions that James Wing Woo assisted Ed Parker with in the early days just the same as many others throughout the next 3 + decades of Ed Parker innovations and advancements in what came to be known as Ed Parker's American Kenpo. If this is all that you wanted, it could have been handled much better and with a great deal more tact."

But it didn't happen. Tact or no. How would the politically correct version of what happened between Mr. Woo and Mr. Parker go? Maybe just say things didn't work out, and leave out the truth about the man being used and completely dependent upon Mr. Parker? Maybe you can write a tactful version for us?

Ed Parker's art, American Kenpo, is still an evolving art. Just like Jigoro Kano's judo, James Mitose's Kenpo (Kosho or earlier), Chang T'ung Sheng's Shuai Jiao, and virtually all other martial arts. Very few martial arts progress from one generation through to the next without some modification, alteration, addition or deletion. But many of Those in The Know are just as happy when someone else speaks the truth. Finally and openly. Personally, I think history is just that--history. It certainly shouldn't drive intelligent people away from what is a very effective defensive art (Kenpo).

Doc wrote: "I'm glad you admit and refer to him as "Weird Will", this is a much more accurate description of the man.

I never sought to defend his personality or character, or any of the odder...facts and events with which he has been concerned (LIKE the sex-as-religion-rather-than-prostitution-that-a-judge-didn't-buy). BUT the man was close to Ed Parker. He isn't active with Tracy's Kenpo (as far as any of us know), and his recollections seem honest and valuable. Many of his claims are supported by the fact, and he appears to have gone to great lengths to explain things from his perspective. I certainly wouldn't go so far as calling what Will wrote a "perfect history". It is personal, it is unpopular with many people (who weren't there either)...and it is right...there.

Doc wrote: "Much of what he writes is either wrong or twisted, yes there are shreds of truth (I agree on some) but to go to this length 8 years after Ed Parker passed is gutless, and those that continue to post this garbage are as well."

Feel free to point out where "Weird" Will Tracy is wrong or rebutt what he has written. I for one will read with interest, and would rather know wrong for wrong. That Ed Parker has passed is no reason to simply deny the facts and pretend the man was perfect, or a diety (or completely deviod of ethics). Should we forget about Watergate because Nixon is dead and speak only sweet nothings of him?!! Come on, this is neither realistic nor of service in the long run. Sooner or later the facts surface. Why not acknowledge and confront them early on? Why acknowledge only what one thinks is good or beneficial? Why should the rest of us be content with the meagre tidbits certain others have decided are...enough? I for one do not desire censor. Ed Parker's legacy is not diminished by the fact he was less than perfect on several occasions. SO what? He was a man! This is martial arts, friends--real life--not a sanatized propaganda legend.

Doc wrote: "No respect will be given to those that resort to this type of trashing THE individual that put us ALL on the map!!!"

So we can have only happy thoughts? Someone contributes something grand and suddenly they are off limits? C'mon. That is downright silly. Telling the truth isn't "trashing" just because some people find it bothersome. This seems to be a gross overreaction.

Well, people are free to have your own happy thoughts. I don't fear history--happy and not. It's better to keep on reading, interviewing, studying, and sharing. As long as people consider these things with intelligence and skepticism (good and bad), we should be o.k.

I appreciate history for history's sake. Good, bad, ugly...regardless. I'm not in the business of worrying about whether of not I offend anyone, or whether or not people care to "respect" me or not. I grew out of that a loong time ago. If I wanted respect, I'd write the happy-happy-joy-joy articles we so frequently see in newsstand martial arts magazines. Facts are facts. If you decide to take personal offense at something with is a matter of study, that is one's personal choice. If you come across a version of history which you know is wrong, you are free to dispute. Just calling it "bad" and castigating those who read or share it won't solve anything.


Take Care,

M.C. Busman

I suggest arguing with someone who has already decided and made the assumptions that what he read is true is a waste of time. Your mind is made up. You assume he was "close" to Parker. Why? because that's what he wrote? I know Will. Are we close? Who said that Parker used Woo? Oh yeah, you read that too. It's not true. Now what? You've been told, and I offer at least just as much credibility in my written word as that crap Will wrote. You choose

Anyway if you really wanted a dialog you would have asked for one. Instead what you read is "true" and now you want someone to tell you which part is wrong. Maybe "GoldenDragon 7" will argue with you. As for me, what you believe "just ain't that important."

And for the record, I never replied to you. Makes me wonder if you can't even read who wrote what, how you manage to glean all that information from Wills writing.
 

Doc

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Goldendragon7 said:
LOL, It just occurred to me...... You can't do battle with an unarmed opponent...... :idunno:


So who is more foolish..... THE FOOL or the FOOL arguing with the FOOL....

Pitts off......:)

You shut up too!
 
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M.C. Busman

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Doc wrote: [....]"Anyway if you really wanted a dialog you would have asked for one. Instead what you read is "true" and now you want someone to tell you which part is wrong. Maybe "GoldenDragon 7" will argue with you. As for me, what you believe "just ain't that important."

So do you want a dialogue or do you want to turn your back? You can fix what is wrong, or keep rankting.

I'm still waiting for someone to refute what Will has written. You state over and over that most of what Will has written is unsound. Yet you don't support your suppostition with any information. I know many of his facts are correct, and some aren't. It ain't going to work to just "trash" everything Tracy, and hope people will avoid [everything related to Tracy's like an "R" rated movie.

Tell us why, specifically. Show us what's wrong.

Doc wrote: "And for the record, I never replied to you. Makes me wonder if you can't even read who wrote what, how you manage to glean all that information from Wills writing."

Wree you talking to a ghost? This is a public forum?


Tace Care,

M.C. Busman
 
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