Why does it take so long to get a Black Belt in most systems?

[Titan Uk]

Since becoming BB over 2 years ago. I have been teaching and not training.
I have not learn a single new technique.

It is very hard to continue to develop yourself once a BB but then you have the chance to develop others.

Do not delay taking BB. It's a good feeling to have it but form experience it does not matter what level our at as long as you want to learn. Always be open to new idea and always be open to constructive comments whether good or bad

 

[hardheadjarhead]

It IS frustrating for a black belt once put in the teaching role. You don't get taught as much...if at all.

I will say this...teaching has its advantages. As follows:

--For the very first time you see the mistakes others make. If you never made that particular mistake, it forces you to think of a solution for teaching it correctly. This is challenging for techniques that are complicated.

--Teaching spurs creativity. It forces one to come up with new analogies for explaining methods.

--You see challenges that others have. Some people, for instance, can not move the way others do...and likely will always have that limitation. This spurs a black belt to modify the technique to fit that individual, or come up with a suitable replacement technique.

--You have to ALWAYS be on your toes when teaching, so you don't mess up in front of your students.

All of this can make you a better martial artist and better technician. It can give you a far better understanding of what it is you're doing.

So...to connect this with the original topic of the thread...it takes a long time to get black belt for a very good reason. At the end of that road the student becomes a leader. The leader has to be competent to a certain degree. Competency takes time acquire.

Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[loki09789]

"Since becoming BB over 2 years ago. I have been teaching and not training.
I have not learn a single new technique."

Are there any 'new' techniques once your a BB? By then, don't you know all the mechanical/fundamental movements of the art you are studying? I honestly am asking, because within Kenpo/Arnis arts the technical stuff if covered by about Green Belt and the depth of proficiency and understanding/creativity is what is developed from then on. Some arts do have BB only training that is part of the motivation for the artists.

The length of time really comes down to necessary man hours of repetition and thought that it requires to 'get it' and be able to 'do it' well under pressure.

I would think that at least 3 months of fitness conditioning would be the beginners goal (along with the technical baseline) to make sure you can make it through a class without feeling too bad the next day. Then, the conditioning (mental/physical/technical) to deal with applying those techniques in stress/sparring/realistic application would be the next, and so on. The time requirement just exists because it does.

Paul Martin

 

[hardheadjarhead]

In the systems I've studied, there is a wealth of information past black belt...plus refinement of the techniques already learned.

And there is nothing wrong with cross training at that point!

Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by SpiritFists936
why does it take so long to get a black belt in most martial arts systems? I mean when people find out it only usually takes 1 1/2 to 2 years to get a black belt in the system i take they freak out and say they have been in their system 6 years and still dont have a black belt. not to be concieted or anything but most of the time these 6 years vets arent even as good as our middle ranking belts, yet they have been in the martial arts 10 times longer, can someone explain this to me?

Thanks

It sounds as if you have no idea how much material some styles cover. Yes you do get better at less stuff quicker. Kenpo, for instance, has a bout a 154(give or take) techs with endings to add and study at the higher belt levels. I don't even want to tell you how long it took for me to make black. The scarry thing is that in a fight its really all about who was first and if a two year black belt blasts me in the head before I get him then I get knocked out; however, if I know what knd of fighter I'm dealing with, I have enough material to devise different game plans. I'll tackle and grapple a kicker or kick and punch a grappler. In short the systems that take longer do pay off down the road.
Sean

 

[loki09789]

When people are saying that there is new material after BB, can you make a distinction:

1. Is it material SEPARATE from your original system - maybe your instructor is dual/multi-art ranked and only begins cross instruction after BB in a base art?

2. Is it material/theories/concepts within the art TKD, Shotokan, MA... that is not introduced until the BB level?

Paul Martin

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I'd have to say "yes" to both.

Since black belt I've gained insights into the art and learned new techniques.

I've also crossed train and built upon that black belt foundation, adding from other systems to my "database"

Doing this lent insight into what I was doing in my primary art.


Regards,

Steve

 

[rmcrobertson]

It's because there are very, very, very few people who have the time and/or the talent to get a meaningful black belt in one or two years.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Yup...Chuck Norris got it in, what? A year/year and a half.

THIRTY hours of training a week. Five hours a day.

That's a tad different than the twice a week (max)/45 minute classes program I've seen offered that will guarantee a six year old a black belt in two years.

Haaaaaaaccccckkkkkkkk...PTUI!

Mmm. That was a hairball. I have to quit grooming my cat so much.


Steve

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead
Yup...Chuck Norris got it in, what? A year/year and a half.

THIRTY hours of training a week. Five hours a day.

That's a tad different than the twice a week (max)/45 minute classes program I've seen offered that will guarantee a six year old a black belt in two years.

Haaaaaaaccccckkkkkkkk...PTUI!

Mmm. That was a hairball. I have to quit grooming my cat so much.


Steve

Steve,

They have this salve you can put on your cats paws or your own fingers and then lick it off. It helps with those pesky hair balls. There is also a treat out that helps with this problem. I recommend the salve as it has a slight licorish flavor.

This way you and you cat can continue your relationship or grooming.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Well, Rich...if the salve is a prescription, then I'll have to go to the vet to get it.

He has REALLY cold hands. And I don't much care for his thermometer, either. Too big, if you ask me.

I'll think about it.


Steve

 

[ABN]

They've also got cat food that has a hairball treament in it, I think Nutro makes it. You could give some to your cat and throw a few chunks of the dry stuff in your cereal, let it get soggy in the milk, wolf it down with the lucky charms and boom, hairball problem cured.

Just don't get too carried away especially if you strain your neck trying to clean yourself.....

andy

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Just don't get too carried away especially if you strain your neck trying to clean yourself

That's how I got the cervical joint disease and the bulging disc in C-5...and that pulled hamstring. But it was worth it.

But this isn't a black belt technique..and off topic. So I'll return to it.

------------------------------------------------

A number of the people who post to this forum have a very rich and well rounded martial history. Many cross train, building on the foundation(s) acquired from various arts.

I got my black belt in Tae Kwon Do...five years later I started to finally hit my stride with the art. I then started into Hapkido to fill in some blanks, and found that the art integrated beautifully with my original system. Then it was on to Small Circle and Modern Arnis. Later Brazilian jujitsu, Combat Submission wrestling, Sayoc Kali.

I honestly have to say that if properly approached, each art complements the other nicely. They augment each other, they integrate with each other.

So...whatever art you practice...once you get a black belt, I suspect there is MUCH more to learn within the system. Its a big beautiful Martial Arts world out there, though...it won't hurt to check out some of the other things people are practicing.

Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[loki09789]

Here's are questions as far as length of study/cross training to all:

How much of the new material at the BB level is withheld because it is sort of the masters degree work of the art?

Could you have handled the new material/techniques at an earlier level if it had been introduced then? Was it explained why this BB material was not introed earlier in training?

Has anyone been tasked with mandatory cross training of some kind or a specific special area within the base art as part of the higher level training (ex. Judoka told to take boxing to see it from the other side, or within an art, given the assignment of studying all the kicking elements of the art for the purpose of deciphering some conceptual mastery?

Basically, I gues what I want to know is how many have felt that all the stuff was right in front of them all along, but they just didn't have enough understanding to see it until later. Or, did the way you were taught 'save' some material until after BB some systematic reason?

Mechanically, I think it is all there, it just takes work and thought to discover it. Of course it will take longer than having an instructor show/tell you, but after BB we should be more personal researchers than spoon fed students.

Paul Martin

 

[hkg]

why does it take so long to get a black belt in most martial arts systems? I mean when people find out it only usually takes 1 1/2 to 2 years to get a black belt in the system i take they freak out and say they have been in their system 6 years and still dont have a black belt. not to be concieted or anything but most of the time these 6 years vets arent even as good as our middle ranking belts, yet they have been in the martial arts 10 times longer, can someone explain this to me?

Thanks

Well i think it is very dependant on the art u are doin for example in the style of kung fu i practice it would take proably take 10 yrs to achieve the black sash, also there is only 5 sashes all togeather(u start with none). Where as my mate got his black belt in tkd after jst a couple of yrs but all he had to do was break boards and spar with gear on. Personaly i think havin loads or hardly any belts is niether here nor there as what i think counts is if u can defend urself effectively agaisnt attacker(s) and this comes down to the trainin u do. but remember even when u are at the highest belt it does not nessesarly mean u hav mastered the art as i think u never stop learnin so this in a way negates belts completely as i tnink they are jst there for goal settin and obviously skill level but especialy begginers as once u progress through the art one should begin to look past the nxt belt but focus purely on the art itself.

 

[8253]

Knowledge is the only true ranking

 

[DeLamar.J]

why does it take so long to get a black belt in most martial arts systems? I mean when people find out it only usually takes 1 1/2 to 2 years to get a black belt in the system i take they freak out and say they have been in their system 6 years and still dont have a black belt. not to be concieted or anything but most of the time these 6 years vets arent even as good as our middle ranking belts, yet they have been in the martial arts 10 times longer, can someone explain this to me?

Thanks

Having a black belt actually means something in some schools. People hand them out way to easy. This is why a black belt is not so special anymore, it seems like everyone is a blackbelt these days. I was talking to a friend who thought he was going to get in a fight with this guy, he said everyone says this guy is a black belt, and I said who is not a black belt these days, dont even worry about it.
I think it should take about 6 years before you get a black belt.

 

[TigerWoman]

In our school, most go to rank test min 3 months. I think people should stay at in rank at least six months and know the forms, techniques really well. So six months at white belt would probably seem to be a bit much, but at that level, conditioning is also needed. So six months times ten ranks = 60 months = 5 years. I would vote for that, to get to 1st Dan black belt. for what its worth... TW

 

[DeLamar.J]

Yea, that sounds pretty good. But handing out belts like candy brings in the money so thats what most people will do.

 

[auxprix]

Having a black belt actually means something in some schools. People hand them out way to easy. This is why a black belt is not so special anymore, it seems like everyone is a blackbelt these days. I was talking to a friend who thought he was going to get in a fight with this guy, he said everyone says this guy is a black belt, and I said who is not a black belt these days, dont even worry about it.
I think it should take about 6 years before you get a black belt.

Agreed.

If you're at a good Judo dojo, you can expect to wait 6-10 years for the black belt. I've heard of some that offer it in less, but I can't imagine that anyone could understand the concepts on the level that I think Black belts should (unless they train for hours daily).

This is all personal opinion, but I think that schools should be engineered around the premis that the black belt (or equivical high rank) is a lofty goal that everyone can attain with time and hard work. It's nice to see people wearing their black belts and knowing that they have a very good grasp on the techniques that I am studying.