Why long NOW?

[Kirk]

After doing some reading on kenpo seniors, and even martial
arts seniors, I've seen that quite a few got their black belts
REALLY quick. Most under 2 years (most that I've read). Mr
Ibrao's web site claims that ED PARKER awarded him with
a black belt in 9 months. How long did it take Mr Parker
to earn his?

Now we're in a system where 4 years would be considered fast?
What changed?

Not just kenpo either. I heard a rumor that Chuck Norris
earned his black belt in under two years, IN KOREA!

Has martial arts been dumbed down?

 

[jfarnsworth]

Sometimes we need to look at the individuals in question. Some people do nothing but live kenpo karate. Look inside the journey throughly; see people the people who said they trained 10+ hrs. everyday 7 days a week. This may help you seek some of your answers.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Dumbed down? I dont know....

Taking longer? Definately.

Why? $$$$$

Student gets Black in 1 year. Say you charge $50/month... thats only $600 for you.

Make it a 4 year program, charge them for every belt test (which is held during regular classes), charge them for every stripe test (again held during regular classes), make them pay an organization fee every year or revoke their rank... Now you have several thousands of $$ from them.

Welcome to big business. Given that I've heard from several different, -long time- kenpo seniors that the only reason Yellow belt is there is for the $$...well, you figure it out.

I don't agree with the over commercialization of the arts, nor do I agree with forcing someone to be in a minimum amount of time before awarding a belt, nor do I agree with the 'guarenteed to have a black belt in 4 years' shtick.

I don't have a problem with earning a living from the arts....just the nickle and dime you to death mdojo mcbozos.

:asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Jason hit another part of it on the head.... individual ability.

Some folks are either born martial artists, or have the chance to focus on the arts and develop into one. Others fit it in where they can, and sometimes take lots of time off.

Most folks hit the arts in a hobbiest way. We aren't militia, so we sont need to be combat ready in 6 months. Take Tai Chi for example...theres some incredible combat techniques in there...but most people see it as streching for old folks. :shrug:



(Thanks for the reminder on the individual part.)

 

[arnisador]

When soldiers were learning in the Orient in the 1950s and 1960s, 1 or 2 years was not uncommon. Yes, it's changed.

 

[Mike]

I had the same thought today. I was reading Joe Lewis' biography on his site http://joelewiskarate.com/ which says that he earned his first black belt in 7 months. I don't understand how that is even remotely possible. One of the reasons that I feel comfortable with the studio where I study is that they do not charge extra for belt or stripe tests.

 

[Big Pat]

Mr. Parker's younger brother stated that it only took Mr. Parker one year to earn his Black belt. Please note that this is from Brown to Black. Something that was very rare for a student of Prof. Chow. His brother attributed it to his talent and photographic memory. Once he saw the techniques he could repeat them almost flawlessly. I have heard it said Mr. Parker spoke the same thing about a young Bruce Lee. Also,the large number of techniques did not exsist in Mr. Parker's early Kenpo. Mr. Sullivan has stated that there were only 25 or so base techniques in the beginning. It is also important to note that many of Mr. Parker's first students already had martial arts experience, making their journey somewhat quicker to Black belt

.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
but most people see it as streching for old folks. :shrug:

Could we be a little more politically correct and use the proper term old farts from now on ...thanks...:rofl:

jb:asian:

 

[Kalicombat]

It's all about the Benjamin$$$$$. Many schools I have encountered over the years dont even try to hide the fact that money is their main priority. They have BLACK BELT CLUBS where parents pay through a bank draft, sign contracts for two or three years so their kid can get his or her name on a wall under the title BLACKBELT CLUB. This tells the world, or at least everyone in the school, that these individuals are paying their way through the curriculum and that they will get their blackbelt. When you add in the promotion tests, which usually go up in price with each ascending rank, and the patches, belts, private lesson fees, required equipment that is usually available only from the school, the in school tournament registration fees that many schools charge, you are talking about alot of Benjamin$$$$$$. Then they through in the promotion pictures that are usually inflated to three or four times the cost, not to mention manuals, videos, and any number of other ammenities that creative instructors come up with to add to their monthly income and you have taken a pure form , and bastardized it for the sake of making a ton of cheddar.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
Sometimes we need to look at the individuals in question. Some people do nothing but live kenpo karate. Look inside the journey throughly; see people the people who said they trained 10+ hrs. everyday 7 days a week. This may help you seek some of your answers.

Yeah, I've heard this one too (but not by all of them). I've also
heard that Mr Parker denied it for a LOT who made those claims.
I heard that Mr Parker said "many were IN the dojo 10 hours a
day, but not all were TRAINING IN the dojo 10 hours a day. Many
in the Journey had families. They must have been VERY
understanding wives back then, to let their husbands either not
earn a living, or to be fine with their husbands spending an
additional 10 hours outside of the home, in addition to the 8 or
9 they spent at work.

 

[GouRonin]

That's right. It's all about the money. North Americans have made the black belt the cash cow of the martial arts.

These guys got their black belts the old way. When being a black belt just meant that you proved you were a serious student of what you were doing. So of course the time frames are different.

All this mystical mumbo jumbo is kee-rap.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by GouRonin
That's right. It's all about the money. North Americans have made the black belt the cash cow of the martial arts.

All this mystical mumbo jumbo is kee-rap.

Hey Now,

North America jr. (I mean Canada) isn't that far behind. I seem to have read a disclaimer on the WKKA site about BB's in Canada (that was money related)..and your favorite martial arts child molester really had a hold of the financial side of the martial arts down. So I don't think it is only the U.S.

:asian:

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Kalicombat
It's all about the Benjamin$$$$$. Many schools I have encountered over the years dont even try to hide the fact that money is their main priority. They have BLACK BELT CLUBS where parents pay through a bank draft, sign contracts for two or three years so their kid can get his or her name on a wall under the title BLACKBELT CLUB. This tells the world, or at least everyone in the school, that these individuals are paying their way through the curriculum and that they will get their blackbelt. When you add in the promotion tests, which usually go up in price with each ascending rank, and the patches, belts, private lesson fees, required equipment that is usually available only from the school, the in school tournament registration fees that many schools charge, you are talking about alot of Benjamin$$$$$$. Then they through in the promotion pictures that are usually inflated to three or four times the cost, not to mention manuals, videos, and any number of other ammenities that creative instructors come up with to add to their monthly income and you have taken a pure form , and bastardized it for the sake of making a ton of cheddar.

Slow down....I can't write that fast...ok, black belt club, private lesson fees, yada,yada,yada..thanks for the info....:rofl:

 

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
Hey Now,

North America jr. (I mean Canada) So I don't think it is only the U.S.

Sorry to state the obvious but Canada IS part of North America. Gou wasn't picking strictly on the US. Stop being paranoid.

Dot

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Kirk
They must have been VERY understanding wives back then, to let their husbands either not earn a living, or to be fine with their husbands spending an additional 10 hours outside of the home, in addition to the 8 or 9 they spent at work.

Your kidding, right? :shrug:

I think the national average on divorce rates just caught up with the martial artists' historical average.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
your favorite martial arts child molester really had a hold of the financial side of the martial arts down.

That's not all he had a hold of...
:erg:

Ha ha ha! I bet if he could he'd have started a "Kenpo Diddler" association for like minded people.

I was talking about ALL of North America...and watch who you're calling "jr" bub. We're bigger and we're on top. If this was prison, you'd be our biotch.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by GouRonin
I was talking about ALL of North America...and watch who you're calling "jr" bub. We're bigger and we're on top. If this was prison, you'd be our biotch.

I guess that is true....so if we're like the head of everything, you'd be like our real big, bad looking toupee, huh?

Oh, and peanut gallery (I mean Dot) feel free to chime in at any time, I'm not THAT paranoid...hey, what was that sound...oh, excuse me.....


jb:asian:

 

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
I guess that is true....so if we're like the head of everything,

Ooooh Noooo Americans aren't egotistical. What ever gave you that idea.
No such thing as a stereotypical American.

Sorry JB I couldn't resist you left yourself WIDE OPEN for that one. Besides you said I could chime in anytime. :angel:

heh heh

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
I'm not THAT paranoid...hey, what was that sound...oh, excuse me.....

It's only paranoia if they aren't out to get you.

 

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by Mike
I had the same thought today. I was reading Joe Lewis' biography on his site http://joelewiskarate.com/ which says that he earned his first black belt in 7 months. I don't understand how that is even remotely possible. One of the reasons that I feel comfortable with the studio where I study is that they do not charge extra for belt or stripe tests.

I think it depends on what you get. We get charged about $800 Australian (US$450)for our Blackbelt tests but we get an embroidered uniform, fancy plaque and gold pendant so at least a decent portion of it comes back to us.

As for the natual martial artist thing, I read that Chuck Norris failed his yellow belt grading so his natural ability must have come through after that. I'm not taking anything away from Chuck but it just demonstrates that maybe natural ability wasn't at play there.


Cheers
Sammy