Who is David Schultz?

[andyjeffries]

There have been some comments in another thread asking if Kong Soo Do is David Schultz. KSD has said that this was off-topic in the thread rather than answer that question, so here is an open question - does anyone know David Schultz and does he frequent this board (under which online alias)?

Here's a picture of Mr Schultz:



Here is the Bullshido thread on Mr Schultz.

I make no claims as to whether Mr Schultz is on this board, but as that gentleman claims to have Taekwondo experience and has been called out for being a martial arts fraud on another internet forum, and there is no one on here claiming to be him (therefore I'm not attacking another board member), it's surely on-topic for this board to be discussing this person.

 

[andyjeffries]

As Kong Soo Do has now confirmed that he is Mr David Schultz, you can consider this thread closed.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Threads involving or about Mr Schultz. You will notice most are locked. You will also note that these threads are why MartialTalk had a heavy anti-fraudbuster policy, because of the level of disruption and harassment and general asshatedness of all involved. You will also note that this mess is part of why I ceased being staff here. Took too long to boot all involved.

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[Tez3]

Andy I think you are skating on ice making this a thread. Stating you think this is closed may not be enough.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Most of his critics have either left or in most cases been banned. A few others aren't welcome here. He's banned or shamed on most other sites. He himself was never banned from here, but his account was closed to end the disruption, which was major. Any thread he posted in summoned the "Asshatted Warriors of Proper Martial Arts" who then acted like rabid monkeys in poo piles and crapped on the topic, resulting in dozens of locked trolled discussions. That's why the "Hot Pursuit" rule was added. The Asshats were right, but they were also tearing the place apart. Those who were here then will remember the chaos. I sincerely hope that if that crap starts again, those involved are all booted promptly. Not my call anymore, but this is a dead horse issue. Really. Read the threads, follow the link to craptastic, make you own minds up and ignore, block, etc. Ok. Did my god dead for the day. Back to sleep go I. zzzzzzz

 

[oftheherd1]

I see no reason to close the thread or discussion. As is often the case with reasonably common names, a google search reveals lots of David Schultz hits, for many different people. That includes a wrestler who was shot to death in 1996. I saw a David Schultz in the UK. There is also a Master David Schultz listed as having a school in Florida, teaching Kong Soo Do, Tae Kwon Do, and Hapkido, which the OP provided a link to.

Is the person Kong Soo Do on this board a fraud? I don't know. But I would like to hear from Kong Soo Do on the matter before I make any judgements.

I also don't make any judgements against andyjeffries for starting the thread. If he honestly doesn't know, but has some reason to doubt Kong Soo Do, it is proper for him to express his concerns. It helps protect this forum and all MA. I would be curious if andyjeffries tried PMing Kong Soo Do first, which would be a courtesy.

EDIT: I got called away from my compter for a while before adding the above comments. Looks like there is more to this than meets the eye. Oh well.

 

[NSRTKD]

I have no idea what any of this is about... but if I logged onto a forum and found numerous public discussion about whether or not I was a fraud, my feelers would be hurt and I would require both a tissue and a waaahhhmbulance. I realize that many people might have concerns about this guy, but do we really have to be public preschoolers about this by trashing someone over and over, by name and picture?It's bullying, whether he is or is not a "proper" martial artist.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Most of his critics have either left or in most cases been banned. A few others aren't welcome here. He's banned or shamed on most other sites. He himself was never banned from here, but his account was closed to end the disruption, which was major.

Correct, most of them left or were banned (on this and several other boards). I asked for my account to be closed, I was never suspended or banned. I did so because I got tired of fighting an e-pack of trolls. The author of the bull thread, as I've already mentioned was banned (after multiple suspensions) and if anyone here remembers, he was the subject of Bob's 'hero or zero' thread in which nearly 80% of the membership thought he was a zero. After being banned, he went to the bull website and started a thread behind my back. As I'm not a member there, I couldn't respond. I think that sums up his integrity.

If anyone wants to hear what I have to say on the matter, contact me via pm or email and I'll be more than happy to direct you to the discussion. I have nothing to hide and if anyone has a concern, feel free to discuss it with me there. That way the wishes of the mods are respected and the discussion can be viewed or continued without interuption to this board.

I would be curious if andyjeffries tried PMing Kong Soo Do first, which would be a courtesy.

No, no one that has had the courtesy to pm or email with any concerns.

 

[RobinTKD]

Does it really matter? Without trying to sound like I'm 'kissing ***', Kong Soo Do seems to have relevant things to say on most topics, and his advice seems pretty good most of the time!

 

[jks9199]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Ladies and Gentleman,

In an amazing fit of reasonableness, The Last Legionary has shared some history with us about this topic. I'm holding back from locking this thread for the moment, but will happily do so if (and when) it turns to a crapfest.

Let's review the policy on Fraudbusting (Section 4.16.1 of the The Rules.) Within certain bounds and with courtesy, you are free to question a person about their qualifications. They're free to ignore your questions, or to answer them, as they see fit. You can't accuse someone of being a fraud. You can't label them a fraud. You can't hound them. You can't chase them from thread to thread, demanding that they answer; that's Hot Pursuit.

Play by the rules, and this might be an interesting thread, and we all might learn something. Step out of them, and we'll issue the appropriate infractions. There will be no further warnings on this issue in this thread. Violations will result in an infraction, at a minimum for ignoring a moderator warning.

jks9199
Super Moderator

 

[Kong Soo Do]

With all due respect, as a moderator I wish you would make up your mind. Glenn started the same type of thread about me and you slammed it shut before I could respond. So in order to stay within your rules, and keep Glenn from getting suspended by his continual hounding I started a thread on my own board covering all the who/what/where/why and how's that is now into its second page and invited him and Jeremy (and anyone else to come bust me). And now you're going to keep this one open because 'it might be an interesting thread'? I'm not going to go through the typing all over again, nor am I going to cut n paste two pages worth just to interest you. If anyone is really interested in all of the crap that has spewed from a trolls mouth then a simple pm to me will provide them a link where they are welcome to view and/or join in. That way I'm not going to be getting pm's from you telling me to cool it, and stuff from other boards isn't coming over here...which you didn't want and warned others about. If someone isn't willing to pm me for a link then they just aren't that damned interested anyway.

That is all I have to say here in this thread.

 

[Tez3]

Does it really matter? Without trying to sound like I'm 'kissing ***', Kong Soo Do seems to have relevant things to say on most topics, and his advice seems pretty good most of the time!

I'm with you and Naomisarah on this, people post their opinions and if others don't like them they can post their own. I don't think it's necessary for us to have to establish 'credentials' in public before we post. I have no idea who most are on MT, it really doesn't matter, if I like what they say I agree with them, and if I don't I disagree as most will know lol. if I don't find something interesting I leave it alone. I don't care what rank someone is, I don't even care what style, what matters is that they don't bully, harrass or hate. I think anyone of any style should be able to post on any thread they want to, anyone should be able to ask questions, give advice, post videos and photos and chat without having to prove they are martial arts masters.

I had a look at some of the stuff Legionary posted, understood not a word! Worse, it was boring!

 

[andyjeffries]

If anyone wants to hear what I have to say on the matter, contact me via pm or email and I'll be more than happy to direct you to the discussion. I have nothing to hide and if anyone has a concern, feel free to discuss it with me there. That way the wishes of the mods are respected and the discussion can be viewed or continued without interuption to this board.

I didn't see anything in jks9199's post that said we can't link to external publicly available sources, so the link to the discussion referred to above is here:

http://excoboard.com/martialwarrior/148258/1820265

 

[andyjeffries]

Andy I think you are skating on ice making this a thread. Stating you think this is closed may not be enough.

It seems that provided we play by the rules, then the mods (jks9199 and Bob Hubbard) are happy for the thread to continue.

To be honest, all I wanted was an answer to is Kong Soo Do called David Schultz in real life. The answer to that was hard to get, I've had it so now I'm happy. If others want to continue discussing Mr Schultz's background here or on his board (linked by me previously) they're more than welcome, but I'm satisfied.

 

[Tez3]

It seems that provided we play by the rules, then the mods (jks9199 and Bob Hubbard) are happy for the thread to continue.

To be honest, all I wanted was an answer to is Kong Soo Do called David Schultz in real life. The answer to that was hard to get, I've had it so now I'm happy. If others want to continue discussing Mr Schultz's background here or on his board (linked by me previously) they're more than welcome, but I'm satisfied.

All you had to do was pm him. You can, I hope see why I said you are on thin ice with this?

 

[andyjeffries]

I'm with you and Naomisarah on this, people post their opinions and if others don't like them they can post their own. I don't think it's necessary for us to have to establish 'credentials' in public before we post.

I don't think it's necessary, but when people are posting about things I like to know who they are so I know that "that comes from that really senior guy in America who's likely to know about that" or "it comes from that guy who talks like he has decades of experience but in reality on started training two years ago".

Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. I just like to know the people behind them so I know how much weight to assign to them by default (before deciding if I agree or disagree).

For example, I've never met Earl, never spoke to him on the phone and never had any contact with him aside from public posts on here. I disagree with him frequently. However, I do know he has decades of experience and genuine high rank with the ITF so when he talks on those topics, I listen intently. If he starts stating Kukkiwon policy and feelings I'm likely take it with a larger pinch of salt, but this is because I know who he is not just an alias.

I think anyone of any style should be able to post on any thread they want to, anyone should be able to ask questions, give advice, post videos and photos and chat without having to prove they are martial arts masters.

They should, I absolutely agree, but I'd like to know who they are. If we were all talking in a bar or at an event it would be much easier to who knows what they're talking about and who's talking crap. It's much harder with short/terse online posts, so knowing who people are helps get that feeling across (and I get a mental picture of them talking, even if I have no idea what they look like).

 

[andyjeffries]

All you had to do was pm him. You can, I hope see why I said you are on thin ice with this?

KSD seemed evasive about his identity in a public forum. I see no reason that it needed to be taken "to private' given that it was a public question. As Earl said in that thread, if KSD's answer was an outright "I'd rather not say my real life identity", I'd have accepted that (probably begrudgingly, but still) - it's the evasive non-answer answer that made me want to chase for a proper answer.

I'm sure the moderators have seen that I'm not generally a troll and that I've genuinely added value in some of my posts, so hopefully I wouldn't be kicked off if they felt I broke the rules once. That said, from the moderator's post in this thread, it seems that we're fine to continue and not breaking any rules.

Or did you mean something else about me being on thin ice?

 

[andyjeffries]

I also don't make any judgements against andyjeffries for starting the thread. If he honestly doesn't know, but has some reason to doubt Kong Soo Do, it is proper for him to express his concerns. It helps protect this forum and all MA. I would be curious if andyjeffries tried PMing Kong Soo Do first, which would be a courtesy.

I hadn't and the reason is simple. The original question/"answer" was in a public forum so the proper answer should be there.

It happens all too often in the past where a question gets asked and the reply is "Sent you a PM". It irritates me, it's a public discussion, post the answer for all to see.

 

[miguksaram]

I'm with you and Naomisarah on this, people post their opinions and if others don't like them they can post their own. I don't think it's necessary for us to have to establish 'credentials' in public before we post. I have no idea who most are on MT, it really doesn't matter, if I like what they say I agree with them, and if I don't I disagree as most will know lol.

I agree with you to a point. However, you may like someone's advice but how do you know it is good advice. Example if I told you that eating 1 Kilo of chocolate will actually help you lose weight so you should do it, you may like that advice, but now ask me about my credentials in weight loss management. None...zip...nadda...zero. For all you know I may have gotten that advice from the Hershey website. So sometimes credentials are important in order to figure out once experience on the subject matter.

Would you really take an opinion about how to use a katana sword from someone who has only watched the Last Samurai movie and based his knowledge off of that? While there is some insight that does not need credentials established, I believe there is other insights that do require a bit of backing in order to have an opinion be taken seriously.

 

[Tez3]

What I meant about being on thin ice was that making a thread about another poster and putting a link from a site that no one has much time for and is unwelcome here isn't a good idea as it could be looked at as inciting trouble.
I understand you want to know who people are but it's not how it works, you can accept that people like to post anonymously or you can ignore them. Making them out to be 'shady' just because they want their privacy is unfair.

However, I think you read KSD post incorrectly, he wasn't hiding his identity he was talking about the link that was posted, he also invited anyone to PM if they wanted more information. When he said he can't answer yes or no, he wasn't talking about his identity he was talking about the stuff posted, I said that was probably the case and he agreed.

There is no doubt you aren't a troll and you post honestly but I think some of the American's arguments are leading you off course. It has little relevance to the subject being discussed who the person is frankly, it's the internet. If you agree with an opinion you agree with it whoever makes it. I hope you aren't saying that you only agree with people who have 'status'? For myself I read it and will agree or not, regardless of who the person is. I don't find out who they are before making my mind up.