Which is worst

[Gemini]

The problem with the bad attitude issue atleast in my opinion, is that one can not really change anyone.

At face value, I would agree with you, but let's take that another step. It isn't changing them that brings success. It's changing their outlook. I'm certainly no shrink, but I have observed others accomplish this. A bad attitude is the bi-product of some negative perception. Whether it's on a particular issue, many issues or in general, something's wrong. The positive results I've seen others achieve in dealing with such people wasn't by changing them per say, but rather how they see things. Showing them a different perspective and making them realize the positives that can be gained. Explaining things to them in a way they can understand and accept it. Giving them goals to strive for and a reason they find acceptable to strive for it. If you can accompish this, you succeed, if not, you fail. I know we say things like "To help you in your whole life" as a key selling point of why someone should join a martial art, but when handled by those who really do believe it and are able, it can and does really happen.

 

[AceHBK]

I agree with everyone here and choose the good attitude/bad technique anyday.

Some say thought that the good tech and bad attitude is ok sometimes depending on the student and seeing what is the root of them having a bad attitude. Some teachers say that the ones with bad attitude's IF u r willing to work with them and know them on a personal level end up becoming your best students.

 

[evenflow1121]

At face value, I would agree with you, but let's take that another step. It isn't changing them that brings success. It's changing their outlook. I'm certainly no shrink, but I have observed others accomplish this. A bad attitude is the bi-product of some negative perception. Whether it's on a particular issue, many issues or in general, something's wrong. The positive results I've seen others achieve in dealing with such people wasn't by changing them per say, but rather how they see things. Showing them a different perspective and making them realize the positives that can be gained. Explaining things to them in a way they can understand and accept it. Giving them goals to strive for and a reason they find acceptable to strive for it. If you can accompish this, you succeed, if not, you fail. I know we say things like "To help you in your whole life" as a key selling point of why someone should join a martial art, but when handled by those who really do believe it and are able, it can and does really happen.

Though I pray that you are right and I am wrong, I simply have given up on trying to get people to see something when they just dont care for it, as terrible as that may sound.

 

[terryl965]

Though I pray that you are right and I am wrong, I simply have given up on trying to get people to see something when they just dont care for it, as terrible as that may sound.

I prayer that you are just kidding about giving up on these types of students if anything they need to be reminded about what they arte learning.
Terry

 

[TigerWoman]

I've seen some students who were perceived that they didn't care, even had a bad attitude but I also saw that they were always there for class. I think they had low self esteem, an older brother and his sister. Maybe it was because they had hand-me down uniforms that were two sizes too small or torn and patched and dirty looking. The girl never had a belt since she lost hers after being that belt for years. I think it was really too small. I saw them on the street one night and realized they were walking home after late practice at night. No, they said they were just walking to a friends house. But the girl piped up, we always have trouble getting home since their father forgot them after work. They actually lived about 20 miles out of town. After talking with them they thought they weren't good at anything. Actually the master treated them like they were invisible. I asked him about them, and he said they were there for free. But still. I know how that feels. But they still came. Never saw their parents, just the grandfather who was cussing them out one night after class. My daughter and I befriended them and worked to help them. They learned. They were always respectful just very quiet. The girl finally tested and got a green belt after five years in. We got them better uniforms. My daughter and I went to a graduation open house for their older sister who was in my daughters class. It was in a shack on bare muddy ground. They lived in an attached miserable trailer. The boy finally tested two more times and got his black belt. No, the master did not forego his testing fees and I didn't think they should be held back any longer. But seeing him get his black belt was reward enough and he changed and became more confident. He was helpful in school and at tournaments. He and his sister also graduated from high school with good grades and I lost track of them, but I think he went on to a tech school. His sister, I think lost the ride to the dojang when he got a job. Sometimes, the attitude is a sign that we can do something for them, even if it is to give them hope. I think I would rather help someone's heart than teach them technique. TW

 

[Gemini]

Though I pray that you are right and I am wrong, I simply have given up on trying to get people to see something when they just dont care for it, as terrible as that may sound.

Not sure if I'm right or not, but if you read my initial post, you'll see that I'm the last person who's going to be pointing a finger at anyone. You may have tried and given up, which is a sad thing, but I haven't even really attempted it yet, so in my book, you're still ahead of me. Hardly something I'll be putting on my resume any time soon.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

I've seen some students who were perceived that they didn't care, even had a bad attitude but I also saw that they were always there for class.
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Sometimes, the attitude is a sign that we can do something for them, even if it is to give them hope. I think I would rather help someone's heart than teach them technique. TW

Excellent insight and perspective on the attitude problem we're discussing here. Most of us it seems, myself included, would rather not waste our time with MA students with bad attitudes that we perceive as bad apples or slackers. I guess we don't really consider the excess baggage that some of these kids are carrying with them. I hadn't really looked at it from your point of view until I read your post.

Thanks for showing me a different side of why some of these students display the bad 'tude in the dojang. I won't be so dismissive now... :asian:

 

[hong kong fooey]

I would say the worst would be the bad attitude simply because if your student has a bad attitude it's harder for you to teach them. thats just my opinion maybe im wrong but thats my two sence. now I would rather teach the one with the bad techs because those are easily fixed

 

[Rich Parsons]

I was ask what is worst a student with a bad attitude or a student with bad techniques and which one would you rather train yourself.
Terry

If Bad Attitude and Student is willing to change then this is not so bad.

If Bad Attitude and stundet is not willing to change and / or is disruptive to the class then this can be very bad.

If Bad Technique and Student nows/learns/understands that it is bad Technique and is willig to practice and learn good technqiue then this is Good.

If Bad Technique and the Student Does not Know and / or does not care and thereby refuses to learn good technique (* For they are right *) then this is bad.

 

[stone_dragone]

I have to echo many of the thoughts in this thread.

ATTITUDE determines APTITUDE. Unfortunately, perceived aptitude often results in poor attitude. It's these folks that a good teacher needs to be able to identify and help more, so that the increase in one results in an improvement in the other.

My two bits...

 

[evenflow1121]

One of the most remarkable things about students is that sometimes you get really talented people in the beginning that take their talent for granted, and you get not so talented guys that work their asses off, and they fail exams in the beginning the talented ones pass most of them, but eventually the hard workers surpass the talented ones that dont work as hard in terms of ability. As far as bad attitude you can only do so much, you cant beat it into them, its their choice in the end. Sure you can be a good teacher and a good role model and try your best and your hardest, and you should, to get the student to understand the great benefits that they will attain if they stick with studying an MA, but in the end its always going to be the student's choice. I mean I ve seen guys go to bb and just plain suck and I hate to use that kind of terminology and part of it is the teacher's fault, but not so much for failing to get them to see what they missed on as perhaps for at one point or another not telling them, either train hard or dont waste your time and find something else. Sry to sound so blunt just my two cents on it.

 

[rmclain]

I was ask what is worst a student with a bad attitude or a student with bad techniques and which one would you rather train yourself.
Terry

Hi Terry,

I won't accept a student at our school that has a bad attitude. If someone developed a bad attitude (which has never happened), I would try to work it out with them and remedy the situation - ultimately in expulsion from the school.

I would rather instruct someone with bad technique and help them improve.

R. McLain

 

[tkd_jen]

so, for argument's sake, can anyone argue for the poor attitude/good technique as being preferable?

The only way I could use this as being preferable would to be to use the student as an example of how Not to to act. I have seen students like this at our school and our instructor has no problem calling the student (and parents) on their poor attitude. If they have good technique she will tell them "hey you have good technique and a ton of potential, but your attitude is what is holding you back." So she will concentrate on the students that are willing to learn. This reinforces them to display the proper attitude.

 

[Mr.Rooster]

I'll taek the bad technique person anyday. You can keep or whatever else ya wonna do with the bad attitude person.