Respect here today gone tomorrow

[terryl965]

Have many of you notice the lack of respect TKD'ers have towrds each other? I mean their was a time when we tried to help each other become the very best now it is keep everything o myself and bad mouth the school down the street? Is this trend becoming worst and is it ever going to stop?

 

[granfire]

Hm, Interesting observation.

I have observed this to be a more global phenomenon and I have really noticed an erosion of goodwill in the last couple of years - also more general.

You know, any conversation can turn pretty nasty really quick, which I have never noticed before.

The only way I can think of to remedy this ugly little fad is to work hard not to fall for it myself and be more positive.

 

[dancingalone]

I think people in general are less courteous and more vulgar. I frequent a fan college football message board and I have noticed over the years the younger fans are getting a little 'rough' around the edges.

 

[Manny]

My own experience Terry. Inside my dojang we are like a huge family, I help my classmates and kids when they need it or asked it, inside and outside dojang we are very polite and with good manners, always tret each other inclusive the kids with respect. Inside and outside the dojang we never speak of other MA or martial artist form another dojangs/dojos. Sambinim put the egos where they belong (the flat surface of the mat).

All the members and students of the dojang follows the above mentioned.

Remember... there are no bad students.... only bad teachers...

Manny

 

[KELLYG]

I think that there are a couple of things going on lately. There is an us against them type of environment in almost every aspect of our current life. Politics, religion, political correctness, race, martial arts, the haves and have nots etc. etc. etc. I also think that we are currently in an age of entitlement. Young people feel that they are entitled to the lifestyle that their parents have at a younger, and younger age. I feel that somehow our moral compass has been skewed. It is almost as if you have enough money you can do anything and people will still hold you in high esteem. The economy being in it's current state has also caused such radical financial difficulty that people's tempers are short and frustrations are high. Through it all I think that we have forgotten how to listen and learn from each other and possibly help each other. We need to increase our tolerance for our differences and celebrate what we can learn from each other instead of dismissing each other in a disrespect full manner.

 

[Becca]

I came into TKD after six years in a different system. I obviously differ from the general opinion but I loved how friendly and helpful TKDers were!

Maybe it's just our area, or our organisation but I've never come across an unhelpful or unfriendly artist myself, be it in my own school or in others I've met through competition. We have a healthy dose of respect for each other and what happens in the ring stays there. Of course there are always exceptions but I've found those are the people who tend to be disapproved of...

 

[d1jinx]

pretty much what has already been said I agree with.

Today society is definately RUDE-ER than years back. Its all about the shock factor.. I cant believe he/she said that....

Also, One thing I noticed specifically with TKD... they took the rank factor out of most events, tournaments and competition.

You only get respect if you have the better fighter, rank means crap...

As if we didnt need it, another Con against sport TKD.

 

[Gorilla]

I would say that my experience that most schools will work together on techniques . A kick is a kick a punch is a punch. We don't always share strategy or methods.

We have cross trained with allot of schools.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Could it be that more and more people are teaching martial arts as a full time job. I have trained under instructors where it is not their full time proffession and instructors who need the money from teaching to feed the family and pay the mortgage etc. As a general rule (and there are many exceptions) those who teach full time seem a lot more protective of their clientel because they need them and sometimes this can lead to saying negative comments about their opposition like most salesmen do. When I was a teenager doing martial arts it seemed most schools were just a part time thing and any money made was purely a bonus which may have meant a less competitive streak.

 

[StudentCarl]

In my experience, much of the rudeness is related to lack of humility (arrogance). Where there is genuine effort and pain as part of the learning process, there is usually both humility of self and respect for others, a recognition of the dues that have been paid.

I see rudeness in students who lack humility and are pretending to make effort. I think every structure that gives something for nothing (McDojo, parents) encourages this.

 

[Balrog]

Have many of you notice the lack of respect TKD'ers have towrds each other? I mean their was a time when we tried to help each other become the very best now it is keep everything o myself and bad mouth the school down the street? Is this trend becoming worst and is it ever going to stop?

OMG yes - believe me, I've noticed.

And the only thing we can do about it is to continue to teach our students that courtesy and respect DO have meaning and value, and to do that, we have to lead by example.

 

[shaunkwondo]

Have many of you notice the lack of respect TKD'ers have towrds each other? I mean their was a time when we tried to help each other become the very best now it is keep everything o myself and bad mouth the school down the street? Is this trend becoming worst and is it ever going to stop?

I think that it is largely associated with the instructors and coaches, whether you’re an athlete (Sport TKD) or a student of traditional TKD. I am both. I too have seen respect diminish in many ways. Most often starting in the school you come up in. When you hear or see your instructor show dislike or disrespect to another instructor/dojang, that is planting the root that it is okay to disrespect those that are different than you, or that you feel threatened by. This carries out into your everyday life and who you become as a person.

You can choose who you respect.

I don't think that everyone deserves respect but not showing respect to someone is very different than disrespecting them.

It is in large part the instructor’s responsibility to lead by example and instill respect and morals unto his/her students. However, it takes more than two hours a day of being respectful to make you a respectful person. Just like it takes extra time, or your own time to excel in TKD or anything you do; you must also practice being respectful and using good judgment in order for that to become how you really are.

However, it can be hard for an instructor to instill these things when a new student has never learned it at home.

Honestly, there are many reasons why respect is not as prevelent in marial arts as a whole these days. My opinion? Become an instructor and teach it how you believe it should be. Set the example that was set for you; or set the example that you WISH was set for you.

 

[Disco]

"However, it can be hard for an instructor to instill these things when a new student has never learned it at home."

This is the entire crux of the problem. Society in general has changed it's moral compass and the fundamental virtues that were once taught by the parents, have been replaced by excessive vanity, greed and entitlement mindset. All this is thanks to the media with it's host of "reality" shows and allowing the young and the stupid to become the major influence of our children. The parents themselves have become embroiled in the same fantasy. We have to face it, our country, our entire world has changed and is constantly changing at a much faster rate then our parents and grandparents experienced. Instant this, instant that and this carries over to all permutations of every day life. As an instructor, it's not really my job to instill these attributes, but at best, perhaps we can unintentionally input some aspect of these by our own actions and lifestyle.

 

[shaunkwondo]

"However, it can be hard for an instructor to instill these things when a new student has never learned it at home."

This is the entire crux of the problem. Society in general has changed it's moral compass and the fundamental virtues that were once taught by the parents, have been replaced by excessive vanity, greed and entitlement mindset. All this is thanks to the media with it's host of "reality" shows and allowing the young and the stupid to become the major influence of our children. The parents themselves have become embroiled in the same fantasy. We have to face it, our country, our entire world has changed and is constantly changing at a much faster rate then our parents and grandparents experienced. Instant this, instant that and this carries over to all permutations of every day life. As an instructor, it's not really my job to instill these attributes, but at best, perhaps we can unintentionally input some aspect of these by our own actions and lifestyle.

Absolutely! I couldn't agree with you more!

You may not make it a personal responsibility to instill these attributes in your students but I bet by making an effort to lead by example, you will do just that....even if unintentional!

 

[risingfire]

"However, it can be hard for an instructor to instill these things when a new student has never learned it at home."

This is the entire crux of the problem. Society in general has changed it's moral compass and the fundamental virtues that were once taught by the parents, have been replaced by excessive vanity, greed and entitlement mindset. All this is thanks to the media with it's host of "reality" shows and allowing the young and the stupid to become the major influence of our children. The parents themselves have become embroiled in the same fantasy. We have to face it, our country, our entire world has changed and is constantly changing at a much faster rate then our parents and grandparents experienced. Instant this, instant that and this carries over to all permutations of every day life. As an instructor, it's not really my job to instill these attributes, but at best, perhaps we can unintentionally input some aspect of these by our own actions and lifestyle.

I agree, no one can expect the sabumnim to do the job of the parents, parents must be parents. The same goes for school issues, so many want to blame the teachers when in fact the children are coming from disrespectful homes and brining that to school, again, it’s not the teachers problem to raise your children. I love the ADD excuse as well, since when did so many kids develop ADD? I know there are many cases of it but sometimes it’s just an excuse for bad parenting. So many parents have kids and think of them as pets or even worse...dolls. Most are still children themselves and have children because they have no restraint themselves....this is why I have always been an advocate of sterilization if you fail a basic cognitive and/or societal tests. Or, "okay, you are 16 and have had two children, fine, we will pay the health care, WIC, STAMPS, AND WELFARE...but since you cannot keep your legs closed we are going to tie your tubes...you can opt out and not receive any benefits however...LOL I know this sounds super harsh and over the top I am just tired of paying for everyone else’s mistakes. Excuses are like a-holes, everyone has one, and they all stink.

 

[zDom]

I've noticed it but try not to let it bother me.

I figure if they are not respecting me/disrespecting me, they simply don't know me or are just plain stupid.

Most folk with any sense at all respect me if they know me. They may not LIKE me, but that is another issue completely

 

[granfire]

Another wrinkle:

Respecting a person is one thing, but behaving in a respectful manner is another.

I can utterly disrespect a person and still show the necessary manners.
In turn not everybody who lacks manners is fully aware of it. Too many people are not taught right anymore.

 

[seasoned]

Respect bestows respect, If you give it where it is deserved it should come back to you. Respect should be learned at a young age, respect for your belongings, for yourself, for your parents, for the elderly, and for laws. Those that don't show it lack maturity. Practice it daily, or it "will" be gone tomorrow.

 

[shaunkwondo]

I agree, no one can expect the sabumnim to do the job of the parents, parents must be parents. quote]

You're right, the sabumnim shouldn't be expected to do the job of the parents. They should be expected to do the job of the in instructor. And in my opinion, it IS the instructors job to instill respect and discipline in their students. This is what instructors preach, this is why many parents bring there children to martial arts; to teach them respect, discipline, AND self-defense. These things were heavily emphasized and taught in my dojang and in my opinion, they should be.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Today society is definately RUDE-ER than years back. Its all about the shock factor.. I cant believe he/she said that....

Indeed. Much value seems to be placed on doing something simply because it will shock people instead of whether or not it has any worth to it, if it's helpful, etc.

Also, One thing I noticed specifically with TKD... they took the rank factor out of most events, tournaments and competition.

You only get respect if you have the better fighter, rank means crap...

As if we didnt need it, another Con against sport TKD.

Well, that depends on the event and the governing body, really. ITF competitions, for example, divide up pattern competitions by dan ranks (I dans compete against each other, II dans, III dans, IV dans). Sparring goes by weight category. Breaking, both power breaking an special technique breaking has no category divisions (except by sex).

I seem to recall there being a couple of subdivisions in the World Championships back in the 1980s where, IIRC, sparring was further divided into I & II dan and III & IV dan categories. Haven't seen that in years, though.

This is, of course, all regarding national level and above competitors. Local and regional tournaments have rank divisions for various color belt levels, too.

Pax,

Chris