Where Did The Basics Go?

[MJS]

Whether its a youtube clip or watching someone in person, I often find myself watching and wondering why the basics are so poor. Its almost as if people are in a rush to get through the kata or whatever it is they're doing, that they neglect important things such as stance, footwork, proper execution of strikes, etc.

Now, I'm sure, especially if you're dealing with someone who is a beginner, and if the person has never trained before, their coordination may be a bit off, but IMO, thats the time to make the corrections. I say this because that is when their solid foundation should be built. If you don't correct it asap, then they'll continue on thru the ranks, with a poor foundation.

So what is it? What makes basics take such a backseat? Is it the Mcdojos that are more concerned with quantity over quality, pumping out BB after BB after BB, the amount of $$$ that they're bringing in each month, or a fear that if they harp on students to look sharp, those people will leave and go to another school where its not as important?

Where do you all place basics on the foodchain? Do you harp on students to look sharp or let that area slide a bit, to focus on something else?

 

[Drac]

Where do you all place basics on the foodchain? Do you harp on students to look sharp or let that area slide a bit, to focus on something else?

Father Greek and I remind students at every class to remember the basics...

 

[clfsean]

Every class I teach has this format
... basics first
... existing material is reviewed
... new material is presented
... review all material
... applications
... review applications
... review all applications & material

Granted it's not kenpo but IMHO the art shouldn't matter in that respect. Basics are basics & to me should be the first thing reviewed/taught in each class.

 

[MJS]

There are times, when watching students do forms, I'll have them go in slow motion, stopping after each move, to check their stance, where their strikes are going, etc.

I just feel that if basic things are neglected, that will take a toll on everything else. If the foundation of a house isn't good, well....isn't that the base of the house? How is anything else going to be sturdy if the foundation sucks?

 

[Twin Fist]

a lot of kenpo schools stress speed over form. or, the students try to match the speed of the instructor and it doesnt get corrected

 

[just2kicku]

Whether its a youtube clip or watching someone in person, I often find myself watching and wondering why the basics are so poor. Its almost as if people are in a rush to get through the kata or whatever it is they're doing, that they neglect important things such as stance, footwork, proper execution of strikes, etc.

Now, I'm sure, especially if you're dealing with someone who is a beginner, and if the person has never trained before, their coordination may be a bit off, but IMO, thats the time to make the corrections. I say this because that is when their solid foundation should be built. If you don't correct it asap, then they'll continue on thru the ranks, with a poor foundation.

So what is it? What makes basics take such a backseat? Is it the Mcdojos that are more concerned with quantity over quality, pumping out BB after BB after BB, the amount of $$$ that they're bringing in each month, or a fear that if they harp on students to look sharp, those people will leave and go to another school where its not as important?

Where do you all place basics on the foodchain? Do you harp on students to look sharp or let that area slide a bit, to focus on something else?

We drill basics in everything, when we show techniques, we show the basics involved.

We try to explain that when you build a house, you don't start with the roof. You start with a good solid foundation.

Problem is, people don't want to do just 2 foot movements an entire class. They get bored and really not try. It's frustrating. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. We tell them to practice their basics just 5 min a day. No magic.

No one eats, sleeps and drinks karate anymore. It's more of a hobby to some.

That's why we have students that haven't been promoted in over a year. Their basics suck.

 

[searcher]

My basics changed when I went back to EPAK. The stance changes and basic positioning is so very different from other styles I train in.

I have been training for most of my life and I did not see how bad my basics had changed over the years. I think we get to the point where we just assume that our basics are still good and so we don't spend as much time on them as we should.

 

[clfsean]

I have been training for most of my life and I did not see how bad my basics had changed over the years. I think we get to the point where we just assume that our basics are still good and so we don't spend as much time on them as we should.

Even though I train my basics almost daily, my sifu when I see him tells me first thing "Let me see your basics" then about 45 minutes later after review & any corrections, we move on. This is after years of 30 plus hours a week training with him, he still checks my basics.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Good basics are essential but you have seen an erosion of good basics in almost every system do to the idea of teaching quantity over quality.

 

[punisher73]

I have noticed that students who are in it for self-defense vs. other reasons will usually approach the instructor and ask for corrections. They WANT their basics to be good and will spend the time and effort doing repititions on "basic" material to perfect them. Whereas, students who like to do it for physical activity or a study of themselves, aren't as concerned about perfecting them and just like the "movement for movements sake".

I think some instructors will let students approach them after something is pointed out so they don't waste their own time with students who don't really care about them.

 

[LawDog]

Advanced techniques are your basics with a few transitional applications added. If you want to develop really good advanced technique you should isolate the basic motion within the techniques and then strive to perfect them. Now place the transitional applications back in. Now you will have excellant advanced techniques that have speed, power with proper flow.

Today it seems that most will only work or the combined motion instead of isolating it down to it's basic components.

Flash vs speed/power with flow.

 

[Rabu]

You should never have this as a problem.

If you do not have the basics, why do you have advanced techniques or forms being taught to you?

If your foundation is weak, you have nothing.

If you are speaking about a learning curve, where the quality degrades while new material is being absorped, then you are talking something different than I am talking about.

The integration of new or more techniques should happen as you are ready for them, not as your contract for classes gets close to renewal....

Rabu

 

[seasoned]

Basics are the foundation from which our techniques are developed from. It is the well from which we need to return to for proper form. Every Olympic activity has a base of technique, from which all precise movement comes from.

 

[RevIV]

White Belt
6th Rokkyu​

Objective: The white belt is the first, and thus one of the most important levels that our students study. The white belt level is
the foundation for all subsequent learning at Dragon-Phoenix Martial Arts. Not all white belts will become black belts, but ALL
black belts were once white belts. For this reason the basic information taught at this level is absolutely crucial to advancing in
the system. Students who spend the time required to master the basics will almost always make the best martial artists in the
future.

This is the first paragraph on the first piece of paper i give my students.

 

[MJS]

We drill basics in everything, when we show techniques, we show the basics involved.

We try to explain that when you build a house, you don't start with the roof. You start with a good solid foundation.

Problem is, people don't want to do just 2 foot movements an entire class. They get bored and really not try. It's frustrating. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. We tell them to practice their basics just 5 min a day. No magic.

No one eats, sleeps and drinks karate anymore. It's more of a hobby to some.

That's why we have students that haven't been promoted in over a year. Their basics suck.

Agreed. Out of curiosity, do you see any change in student body? In other words, do you see people at your school, who don't like that fact, the fact that their basics suck, and turn around and leave for another school, that'll promote them? What is your instructors take on that?

While I don't do Kaju...but man, I'd love to have a school nearby......it doesn't seem like an art that hands out the ranks unless you earn it, with blood, sweat and tears.

On a side note...watching a few of the recent clips of a BB test at GM Kingis school, all I can say is WOW!!!! That test is no joke! I think its safe to say that you wouldn't be testing if you didn't deserve it.

 

[just2kicku]

Agreed. Out of curiosity, do you see any change in student body? In other words, do you see people at your school, who don't like that fact, the fact that their basics suck, and turn around and leave for another school, that'll promote them? What is your instructors take on that?

While I don't do Kaju...but man, I'd love to have a school nearby......it doesn't seem like an art that hands out the ranks unless you earn it, with blood, sweat and tears.

On a side note...watching a few of the recent clips of a BB test at GM Kingis school, all I can say is WOW!!!! That test is no joke! I think its safe to say that you wouldn't be testing if you didn't deserve it.

Well Mike,
We go thru periods where we'll have a high turnover rate, and yes, sometimes they do leave and go to other schools. Right now it's been pretty steady. But we do drill basics, basics, basics.

We show them that if you only learned inward block and a punch, with just those two basic strikes and basic foot movements, the number of defenses against grabs and punches are endless. But, it comes down to basics. No magic chi balls, basics.

Now Ilm a little old school. My instructor and I were roommates for a few years. So I did a lot of practicing at home. He would wake me up at 1 and 2 in the morning with a wild hair up his ***, and train me in our living room and kitchen. I do not regret it one bit.

Although a lot of new students come in saying that they don't care about the belt, some leave when they don't get promoted fast enough. But it all comes down to basics.

I know a million techs, but when attacked, I automatically use basics. But the thing is I practiced basics a lot, it's second nature.

But, I think that what TF said has a lot of truth, speed has replaced basics, fancy crap that you'll never use on the streets has replaced basics. You see it in forms competitions. The guy with great basics and solid stances will lose to someone who can jump spin 720 degrees throw ten thousand kicks in the air and has a ton of flash.

Just my thoughts, i'd rather be able to defend myself then to do all that!

 

[clfsean]

Well Mike,
We go thru periods where we'll have a high turnover rate, and yes, sometimes they do leave and go to other schools. Right now it's been pretty steady. But we do drill basics, basics, basics.

We show them that if you only learned inward block and a punch, with just those two basic strikes and basic foot movements, the number of defenses against grabs and punches are endless. But, it comes down to basics. No magic chi balls, basics.

Now Ilm a little old school. My instructor and I were roommates for a few years. So I did a lot of practicing at home. He would wake me up at 1 and 2 in the morning with a wild hair up his ***, and train me in our living room and kitchen. I do not regret it one bit.

Although a lot of new students come in saying that they don't care about the belt, some leave when they don't get promoted fast enough. But it all comes down to basics.

I know a million techs, but when attacked, I automatically use basics. But the thing is I practiced basics a lot, it's second nature.

But, I think that what TF said has a lot of truth, speed has replaced basics, fancy crap that you'll never use on the streets has replaced basics. You see it in forms competitions. The guy with great basics and solid stances will lose to someone who can jump spin 720 degrees throw ten thousand kicks in the air and has a ton of flash.

Just my thoughts, i'd rather be able to defend myself then to do all that!

That about sums it up. I teach a CMA that's considered flashy & all at times, but when you get to brass tax (the way I teach anyway)... basics, basics, basics, more basics... that helps you go home.

 

[Carol]

What makes basics take such a backseat?

Compare that question with this one presented by Jarrod, where he talks about students declining rank.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76555

Most of the comments indicate that refusing rank is disrespectful, and would even lead to the teacher-student relationship being terminated.

Is there a connection? Perhaps students are getting promoted before they have their basics mastered?

 

[searcher]

For most schools I have been around, especially in my immediate area, the basics went out the window when the rent went up..........or the instructor needed a new car.

 

[clfsean]

For most schools I have been around, especially in my immediate area, the basics went out the window when the rent went up..........or the instructor needed a new car.

Truth for the large part ...