Then it would conclusively prove that Hanzou has tricked you into debating a piece of nonsense so that nobody scrutinises the perfect example I gave of his dumb ideas about ma training being proven worthless.
When the kata is applied to self defense
- Thread starter Hanzou
- Start date
I'm pretty sure that's not what you are saying.
He's being a troll lol. it's the "same song" every time.
Martial D
Senior Master
That's a completely separate argument. I was responding to that point only vis a vis Silva/front kicks.
My guess would be that most striking martial arts have movement that is foreign to most people. As a teacher I would watch older students try to get their body to move a certain way and you can see them struggle with it. I've seen students rush through learning the movement and do horrible in applying the movement simply because their brain got in the way.
OP
OP
Hanzou
Grandmaster
Where did I say that MA training was proven to be worthless? I said that there's little evidence to show that kata/forms training makes you a better fighter, and in fact the evidence appears to show that the opposite is the case.
OP
OP
Hanzou
Grandmaster
That's exactly what I'm saying. If the true goal of TMAs is "fun" and "exercise", over learning how to fight and defend yourself then that Jow Ga sparring drill doesn't need to be effective against a similarly trained boxer, and forms are just exercises that teach you about the culture and history of your style.
Some would definitely consider that "fun".
This is where I go drown myself lol.
I've been thinking this for a bit, but you get too uptight and think too much about other people's responses. No one is offended by what you said, and I doubt anyone is concerned if you're offended.
More related to this, some people on this forum, if you make a claim they disagree with, want proof of it. That proof can be video, research studies, logic that they accept, or something else, but some sort of proof. If you have that proof, share it and continue, or if you don't have any way to substantiate it, say "I can't prove that point, nevermind. Otherwise it leads (has lead in the past) to absolutely ridiculous claims. The other option is what you've been doing, which is insisting that people accept your claims without proof, causing them to continue asking for proof, and it'll cause a back to forth for about 10 pages on each thread.
Finally Hanzou and Jow Ga agree on something. Starting the stopwatch to see how long world peace lasts lol.
Martial D
Senior Master
You know what I find confusing? And this is to nobody in specific.
Traditionally, and in every martial arts legend, you find master's fighting each other to prove what style is the best. CMA is full of this sort of thing. People talk about great master's fighting on rooftops and all that jazz.
Yet here we are in 2018 actually doing that, and it's the ones with all the legends and great fighting master's rejecting the results wholesale. It seems like counterproductive pride to me.
OP
OP
Hanzou
Grandmaster
Martial D
Senior Master
Or just work out with those guys and spar them until you can jow ga their faces off.Join a Bjj or MMA gym and the peace will be eternal.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
By the way training to win fights is rarely about fun.
Nobody has a gay old time during a fight camp. Fighting might be fun. Winning is fun. But the camp is just crap.
Martial D
Senior Master
Training MMA hurts. It's not easy to do it every damn day that's for sure. Not even for 5 days a week.
I mean..it is..but pain isn't. And there will be pain ..
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
It is all very nietzsche
Martial D
Senior Master
With a splash of machiavelli.
OP
OP
Hanzou
Grandmaster
To be fair, some of the old masters weren't all that good, and some of those legends are just bullshido.
For example, remember that legend about Huo Yuanjia? You may have heard about it, he was portrayed by Jet Li in "Fearless". Supposedly he defeated several foreign fighters in duels and defeated them all using traditional Kung Fu. However, before he could defeat his last opponent, he was poisoned by the Japanese.
Watching the film (and listening to the legends) you'd think this guy flattened over a dozen people. In reality, he didn't fight anyone. He had two challenge matches. One guy fled, and he supposedly the second fight was a knockdown contest. However, there's evidence to suggest that that guy fled too.
Even the part about him being poisoned is contested, saying that in reality he had a negative reaction to medicine, ala Bruce Lee.
Then we have the rooftop battles between masters. Here's an example of one:
Yeaaaaahhhhhhh
The simple reality is that those guys are out there, and they're not stepping forward, because they know what's going to happen when they do.
Who wants to be on the receiving end of that?
lansao
Purple Belt
I think forms can be incredibly beneficial for improvisational application. They behave a lot like patterns and scales do for jazz musicians who practice really small abstract transitions that make no sense without the context of their backup.
I mean, they still practice their sheet music (drills) and play in bands (spar/fight) but don’t hate on the fundamentals or you’ll be nothing but a “tin can of clams.” (Brass/Sax player who hits a bunch of wrong notes or “clams”).
These exercises help free up fighters from getting hung up on specific and sometimes predictable drills.
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