What's wrong with his kicking skill?

[JowGaWolf]

It's a sacrifice kick. That's a technique. You fall down to help get you the height and power (similar to the effect of a trebuchet) and to get your head out of striking range.

It's more effective on a padded surface, especially if there's a break in the action when there's a fall. It'd be a bad idea in other situations.

This thread is the equivalent of saying someone's fist sucks when they're doing a spearhand, or that someone's kick sucks because they hit with a knee on a knee strike instead of hitting with the foot.

You've been on this forum long enough that this can't be due to your being a beginner. But this post reads like a beginner saw this kick and thought "I stand up when I kick, he falls down, what an idiot, I'm so much better than him."

I thought it was a good analysis question. It was a nice easy one because we were able to see the issue multiple times. The techniques that were used are valid so the issue isn't there. If the techniques are valid then then we have focus on the practitioner's skill and his ability to applied the techniques against what he was facing.
He has good kicking ability but it's not suited for what he was facing. What I saw reminded me oh how beginners try to kick hard and the kick is what takes away their standing leg. This often happens to beginners when the kick higher than what their root can support so the weight of the kicking leg moves the standing leg. It's the same concept of how people's punches throw them off balance. The only way to solve this issue is to use power and learn how to root that standing leg.

Most people don't have this issue at this level because they learn rooting through punching and that concept translates into kicking. It doesn't take long to fix, but it's not something I would want to try to fix in a competition since the first instinct would be to kick lighter and not harder.

 

[JowGaWolf]

They don't look like deliberate sacrifice kicks to me. (Or if they are, I don't think they're well executed or appropriate for this particular match.) But it wouldn't surprise me if competing in a ruleset where he isn't penalized for sacrifice kicks has predisposed him to not worrying too much about having to keep his balance after kicking.

That's alot of sacrifice kicks. It takes alot of energy to get off the ground after falling on it. It takes so much energy that I use it for a stamina exercise where I lay down to do sit ups and then I have to get back up as if someone knocked me to the ground.

Throwing yourself to the ground in order to kick is just a bad plan. Falling because you lack a root and cannot balance your momentum is bad technique. Nothing against TKD at all. As you mentioned, outside a padded surface or a break in the action, it’s a bad idea. In my mind, it’s always a bad idea, bad technique, and least importantly, a bad look. But, I don’t compete, so my opinion is meaningless in this. It doesn’t mean he is an idiot, it means he is outmatched and outclassed in this particular video.

Correct. I don't think anyone is looking at the TKD guy ad an idiot. He clearly has skills, it just wasn't applicable for what he was up against. Even the faces on some of the people in the crowd were shocked about how many times he was on the ground.

In training I would be fine but to that same thing in competition, my wife would not be happy. She's very blunt and woulcome straight out and ask why did I keep falling on the ground like a baby. I think the crowd would be more forgiving than my wife lol.

But back to the TKD guy, he just needs to spend a few months sparring against Non-TKD people.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Great point. I cannot fathom training that on purpose, but again, I don’t compete, and I don’t train TKD, so I don’t know what I don’t know.

There are some good TKD fighters who don't do what we saw so it's probably safe to say that it's not the norm. I think this same TKD fighter went against Muay Thai and he had similar issues with getting off the ground.
I think this is the same TKD guy.

 

[Buka]

Unless we’re going to include Python’s Ministry of Silly Walks, I see no point picking on Special Needs Kicking.

 

[drop bear]

That monk appears to be much stronger. I'm going to stir the pot here. I've been re reading a book by Mabuni. He states that kicks don't work well against a much stronger opponent......

As opposed to what?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Unless we’re going to include Python’s Ministry of Silly Walks, I see no point picking on Special Needs Kicking.

Silly walks are very entertaining to me because so many people have them. They can tell you so much about a person. Just like what people wear, where their eyes travel, what they do with their hands, etc. I am a shameless people watcher.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

As opposed to what?

Attacking children comes to mind. Kramer in Karate class from Seinfeld.

 

[Badhabits]

As opposed to what?

I guess the person doing the kicking.

 

[drop bear]

They don't look like deliberate sacrifice kicks to me. (Or if they are, I don't think they're well executed or appropriate for this particular match.) But it wouldn't surprise me if competing in a ruleset where he isn't penalized for sacrifice kicks has predisposed him to not worrying too much about having to keep his balance after kicking.

If you can't box. And you know as soon as you get handsy you will get dropped. But you don't take a count for a slip.

And you get reset.

It could be a viable out

 

[drop bear]

I guess the person doing the kicking.

The thing is by default things don't work against stronger opponents.

So kicking doesn't work.

But to say that you need something that does work.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This guy keeps falling down when he kicks. What's wrong with his kicking skill? Your thought?

You mean besides having no root and being outclassed.....
You have a Korean TKD fighter who is trained to kick and punch and defend against kicks and punches
You have a Chinese fighter. trained in Sanshou, trained to kick, punch, knee, sweep, joint lock and throw and defend against kicks, punches, knees, sweeps, joint locks and throws

 

[Badhabits]

The thing is by default things don't work against stronger opponents.

So kicking doesn't work.

But to say that you need something that does work.

Yeah but.... I've been knocked silly by people physically weaker than me. Not sure it's all in the physical strength.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah but.... I've been knocked silly by people physically weaker than me. Not sure it's all in the physical strength.

And those people would not have been able to knock you silly. If say they kicked you in the head?

 

[Badhabits]

And those people would not have been able to knock you silly. If say they kicked you in the head?

Well obviously. I don't think I understand what your previous post was getting at. I'm not the brightest bulb in the box over here

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The thing is by default things don't work against stronger opponents.

So kicking doesn't work.

But to say that you need something that does work.

It’s not kicking that doesn’t work. In this case at least it’s the guy doing the kicks the way he’s doing them, but it’s more nuanced than just that. Strength counts, but it’s not just that either.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I have always wondered how useful if one just trains his kick into the thin air. If I can kick a subject, I don't want to kick into the thin air. Technique (a fast kick) is only the 50%. Ability (a strong kick) is another 50%.



The issue is control sparring vs. full contact sparring. In control sparring, I touch you before you touch me, I win. In full contact sparring, I have to knock you down to win a fight.

If you use body protect, you can train full contact safely.

 

[Fungus]

The monk is being very nice to him!
Anyway, with those kicks, without contact with earth, your at the whims of all sorts of physics. Hence, you fall down. Was this a jusf for fun demo…

I agree, the problem seen in the video I think is the problem of the TKD fighting strategy itself, at least when applied in such ruleset. It is a kicking game, where I think (?) the strategy is to keep moving to not get hit, and then strike with speedy kicks. Speed is priority over power. So against a conditioned fight, fast air kicks to the body may have little KO power.

But all that airtime and the non-rooted flying kicks can't take the pressure of a conditioning and rooted opponent that pushes back, or kicks your leg while jumping.

This is almost the opposite of what we do in kyokushin, the constant pressure from opponent requires that you adopt a strong balance and avoid airtime, or you will bounce off a conditioned opponent that does not back down, but pushes back.

 

[HighKick]

This guy keeps falling down when he kicks. What's wrong with his kicking skill? Your thought?

I do not know the whole story on that match, but he seems to have terribly weak legs and poor balance.
I have seen falling used as a strategy to slow a fight down and catch one's breath, but that just looks bad.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

he seems to have terribly weak legs and poor balance.

If skill is 50% and ability is another 50%, his kicking skill (timing, speed, and accuracy) may have a score of 90 (or more). but his ability (power and balance) may only have 70 (or less).

I do believe a powerful

- front/side kick can break opponent's ribs.
- roundhouse kick can break opponent's arm.

We don't see that in this video. This further prove that speed without power can be useless.

 

[Badhabits]

I have always wondered how useful if one just trains his kick into the thin air. If I can kick a subject, I don't want to kick into the thin air. Technique (a fast kick) is only the 50%. Ability (a strong kick) is another 50%.



The issue is control sparring vs. full contact sparring. In control sparring, I touch you before you touch me, I win. In full contact sparring, I have to knock you down to win a fight.

If you use body protect, you can train full contact safely.

I have an acquaintance who only kicks and punches air. At most he wraps his wrists when punching even pads on someone's hands. He's fast, great form, looks impressive especially his kicks. Good tag sparring. When it comes down to it, his structure is poor and he'd probably hurt himself pretty bad in the process of hurting someone else. Another issue with only punching and kicking air is targeting. I've trained with a couple other people who only hit air. They also look great but can't hit a moving target for crap. Health issues may prevent someone from actually striking a target, but I think if they think that translates to actual fighting ability they're fooling themselves.