What's with all the stationary Chi Sau?

[mook jong man]

Just from having a look at various Wing Chun offerings on the internet it would seem that stationary Chi Sau is most prevalent.
It is my opinion that unless your doing single sticking hands or extremely new to double sticking hands , then ffs move around.

You don't stand still in fighting so why do it in Chi Sau , I'm not talking laterally , just backwards and forwards a few steps.
Moving around will also stop your thighs from tensing up.

Moving will also teach you to shift your body mass in coordination with whatever arm movement you happen to be performing at the time, for example stepping forward at the same time as you raise your Fook Sau and your Tan Sau will off balance your opponent.
In a similar fashion stepping forward in perfect sync with your Bong Sau will also off balance your opponent.

It also teaches you to maintain your angles in your arms as your opponent is stepping forward so that you may step back or pivot , if your opponent retreats it teaches you to stay in contact and follow him.
It helps you keep an even constant flow of force as you move so that your opponent doesn't notice any difference in your weight shifting as you step , this has applications further down the tracking with kicking as your opponent can't feel when your leg has left the ground.

Performing Chi Sau while constantly moving places your stance and structure under a more dynamic and realistic level of stress rather than just standing there rooted to the spot.
There is a place for stationary Chi Sau but it should be confined to single sticking hands or when learning a new trap ,technique etc , otherwise get those damn legs moving and learn to use your body mass to generate force.

 

[Domino]

Couldn't agree more, my intial training did exactly that and made me question whether the drill was meant to be stationary or mobile there after, different these days.

 

[Eric_H]

Depends on the type of Chi Sao really.

In Kiu Sao there's a lot more footwork and angle changing. When the engagement falls into Tan/Bong/Fook Chi Sao that's pretty much a last ditch moment for us - two men enter one man leaves so there's not much footwork with it, it's more about holding your stance and surviving.

 

[hpclub1000]

I guess my answer to this would depend on my training partner and what problems they present. Conservation of energy is one of our principals so if I don't need to move around then I wont. If I don't need to shift I won't.

If my training partner is bigger, taller, stronger it may be necessary for me to use my footwork to work around them with angles. If they do not pose such a physical problem then I might not need to utilise footwork to move around them and instead conserve my energy. I may just choose to remain relatively static and rely on my hand techniques combined with hips to affect there structure.

Less is more...

 

[mook jong man]

I guess my answer to this would depend on my training partner and what problems they present. Conservation of energy is one of our principals so if I don't need to move around then I wont. If I don't need to shift I won't.

If my training partner is bigger, taller, stronger it may be necessary for me to use my footwork to work around them with angles. If they do not pose such a physical problem then I might not need to utilise footwork to move around them and instead conserve my energy. I may just choose to remain relatively static and rely on my hand techniques combined with hips to affect there structure.

Less is more...

Don't get me wrong there is a place for stationary chi sau but it should not be the only type of chi sau that you do.
Moving in your stance to off balance the training partner is putting the concepts behind the Chum Kiu form into practice.

In the Chum Kiu form you are learning to move your body as a properly coordinated unit , when performing chi sau while moving you are now using that same skill but under an external load , that external load is the resistance of your partner.

Conservation of energy is certainly one of the principals , but one of the principals I live by is that if you want to get good at something then you must do an absolute **** load of it.

Want to be good at punching ? , then do a lot of punching , want to be good at kicking ? , then do a lot of kicking.
Training to be mobile and using your body mass to effect your partners stance takes a lot of practice as well.

 

[geezer]

In our branch, students only remain stationary for as long as it takes to learn the basics of Chi-sau. Then you move in with your attacks and turn aside, or are pressed back when defending. You know "Stay with what comes, follow the retreat, and thrust forward when the way is free" (or howvever you care to translate it). BTW That isn't a motto for the hands, but for the movement of the whole body.


While on the subject, after visiting Joy's class a while back, I went online to watch some pretty interesting youtube video's of Joy's sifu, Augusting Fong, doing some very mobile Dan-Chi against a student who was attacking with both arms. Since then I've been using more stepping in our regular Dan-Chi sessions. I think it's very helpful in learning to coordinate steps and body movement with hand movement.

 

[mook jong man]

In our branch, students only remain stationary for as long as it takes to learn the basics of Chi-sau. Then you move in with your attacks and turn aside, or are pressed back when defending. You know "Stay with what comes, follow the retreat, and thrust forward when the way is free" (or howvever you care to translate it). BTW That isn't a motto for the hands, but for the movement of the whole body.


While on the subject, after visiting Joy's class a while back, I went online to watch some pretty interesting youtube video's of Joy's sifu, Augusting Fong, doing some very mobile Dan-Chi against a student who was attacking with both arms. Since then I've been using more stepping in our regular Dan-Chi sessions. I think it's very helpful in learning to coordinate steps and body movement with hand movement.

That's what I'm saying , if you never practice being mobile , your never going to get good at being mobile. The first time I ever saw my master and his master doing chi sau it was not what the hands were doing that blew me away, it was the fluidity and smoothness of their stepping.
It really contrasted deeply with my somewhat clunky , robotic ,shoulders all over the place type of stepping.

 

[KamonGuy2]

You have to walk before you can run!! A lot of people cant get the basic concept of the poon sao roll (bong to tan etc), so asking them to move around with it is like asking someone to rub their belly and pat their head, and hop on one leg at the same time!! Build the basic hand structures up and then concentrate on the feet.

Its the same with ballroom dancing (dont ask) - you start off with posture and how to grip your dance partner first. Once you have the correct starting positions THEN you move your feet!

 

[geezer]

...of course the worst part about stationary chi-sau is all those damn paper cuts! :ultracool