What's the best way to deal with...

[Mr. President]

A circular kick to the hip bone? It's a very common kick in Muay Thai, and it's also as powerful as it is quick.

I was wondering how a skilled Aikidoka deals with that kick. Does he learn to anticipate it and move back? There's no way to trap it. If you try you might shatter a bone in your hand. It's also too quick to blend with or jump over.

 

[K-man]

A circular kick to the hip bone? It's a very common kick in Muay Thai, and it's also as powerful as it is quick.

I was wondering how a skilled Aikidoka deals with that kick. Does he learn to anticipate it and move back? There's no way to trap it. If you try you might shatter a bone in your hand. It's also too quick to blend with or jump over.

Why wouldn't I move inside it? He has lost power and is on one leg. Aikido teaches irimi, not moving back. I thought you said aikido was your primary art. What have you been shown? :asian:

 

[Cyriacus]

Use his momentum. -Quoting someone in your other thread.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Frankly, if you want to kick me in the hip, I'm likely to let you. I might move into it (robbing your kick of power). I'll certainly take advantage of your one-legged stance to throw a shot or two of my own.
Of course, the statement that you can't trap it is simply wrong.
I'll echo K-Man here: your profile lists Akido as your primary art. Haven't you been shown a counter to this very common attack?

 

[punisher73]

Aikido uses Irimi (entering techniques) in it's arsenal. Aikido utilizes different geometric shapes to illustrate it's concepts, those shapes are the circle, the triangle and the square. A roundhouse kick (or punch) is a circular technique. due to the nature of the circle it HAS to intercept a point in space along it's arc to 1) make contact and 2) have power.

There are two ways of dealing with it 1) move outside the circle. This avoids the attack, but allows for an additional follow up attack and has not moved you into a better position 2) move inside the circle. This still avoids the attack, but also moves you into a better position for control and helps to eliminate some options for the attacker.

Here is a clip that can also be foud in Aikido to counter a roundhouse kick to the midsection/rib area. You would move into the attack and then use the concept of Tenkan (turning) to blend with it and neutralize the power of the kick while throwing the person. Note, the clip is not specifically from aikido (didn't want to take alot of time to try and find one) but the concepts are the same.

 

[Instructor]

I can't speak about Aikido but in Hapkido the response is to close the distance, nullify the circular kicks power by reducing range. Ideally blend and trap but if you lack the speed you can still attack at close range.

Moving away from a circular attack is the worst option.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I'm not an aikidoka, but I do have muay thai training.

First, a muay thai round kick will generally not be targeting the hip bone - it'll likely be coming for either your ribs or your thigh.

Second, the answers (and video) above are correct. You can move forward and with the direction of the kick to rob the kick of its power and trap the leg for a takedown.

Be warned however. Against someone who is skilled, it is not easy to react quickly enough to come in with the correct angle and timing. (Especially if the opponent sets up the kick properly.) You'll need to practice and drill the movement a lot to develop the necessary reflexes.

 

[Instructor]

Perhaps one of the greatist differences between Hapkido and Aikido is that Hapkido has been pitted against and incorporated with Korean kicking arts for several decades now. While Korean kicking styles are obviously not Muy Thai at least Hapkido has to face very fast and very hard kicks as a matter of norm not exception.

 

[Mr. President]

I thought you said aikido was your primary art. What have you been shown?

It's the one I'm most interested in. Maybe I didn't fill the form correctly. I used to do a little Karate and Krav Maga, and both methods would block a kick like that. I'm just being nosy.

Frankly, if you want to kick me in the hip, I'm likely to let you.

If I'm a trained MT fighter whose idea of a relaxing vacation is kicking banana trees, I'm not sure you want me to. One well placed kick and you'll likely to start limping.

Aikido uses Irimi (entering techniques) in it's arsenal.

In a choreographed demonstration I'm sure it works like a charm, but I want to see it with a real MT fighter who doesn't kick on cue and see how an Aikidoka deals with it.

I just want it raw and unscripted, but I can't find it anywhere.

Against someone who is skilled, it is not easy to react quickly enough to come in with the correct angle and timing. (Especially if the opponent sets up the kick properly.) You'll need to practice and drill the movement a lot to develop the necessary reflexes.

My point exactly. The time it takes a MT fighter to launch it is about half a second until impact. An Aikidoka better have a response time that's faster than half a second in order to execute the Irimi to nullify the power of the kick, never mind trapping it.

 

[Tez3]

I had someone kick my hip once, very very painful...for him, hardly at all for me, just a bump, no bruising or limping for me, for him very much so. Our fighters go to Thailand for their MT training, they've never been told or taught how to kick a hip, it would be a big mistake to do that, the permanent fighters at Fairtex where they train don't go around kicking banana trees either.

Raw and unscripted eh? well train in either Aikido or MT and go out and make challenges.....

 

[clfsean]

I see lots of "if's" and "maybe" and "but" type statements here from the OP...

I say put your big boy panties on & go ask an aikido dojo head what'd they do & then by all means try to kick them in the hip.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

In a choreographed demonstration I'm sure it works like a charm, but I want to see it with a real MT fighter who doesn't kick on cue and see how an Aikidoka deals with it.

I just want it raw and unscripted, but I can't find it anywhere.

My point exactly. The time it takes a MT fighter to launch it is about half a second until impact. An Aikidoka better have a response time that's faster than half a second in order to execute the Irimi to nullify the power of the kick, never mind trapping it.

I've seen it both in sparring and real fights. Sorry I don't have any footage handy. The reason you don't see it more often is that it does take really good timing to execute it against a skilled fighter.

BTW - it's not quite accurate to say that the person receiving the kick has to react in less than half a second. It's more likely that the person who pulls off the technique has managed to read his opponent well enough to anticipate the kick before it starts. The other possibility is that he/she was already moving in the right direction anyway and just took advantage of the opportunity.

 

[K-man]

It's the one I'm most interested in. Maybe I didn't fill the form correctly. I used to do a little Karate and Krav Maga, and both methods would block a kick like that. I'm just being nosy.

If I'm a trained MT fighter whose idea of a relaxing vacation is kicking banana trees, I'm not sure you want me to. One well placed kick and you'll likely to start limping.

I think I've found the problem. You haven't done any real training. The belts you get awarded for posting on Martial Talk don't translate in the real world. So really a MT (Martial Talk) fighter is just an armchair warrior. Know what I mean?

 

[punisher73]

I see lots of "if's" and "maybe" and "but" type statements here from the OP...

I say put your big boy panties on & go ask an aikido dojo head what'd they do & then by all means try to kick them in the hip.

Let us know how it goes.

Agreed. EVERY technique out there can be countered. Too many if's and buts to be productive. Never mind the fact that moving into the roundhouse kick and throwing the person is taught in traditional Muay Thai. I guess that the counter will work ONLY if you train in Muay Thai and not another art.

Nobody said that countering/stopping a technique is easy. But, what is being argued is basically who is the better fighter and that is not dependant on style.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I see lots of "if's" and "maybe" and "but" type statements here from the OP...

I say put your big boy panties on & go ask an aikido dojo head what'd they do & then by all means try to kick them in the hip.

Let us know how it goes.

QFT

If I'm a trained MT fighter whose idea of a relaxing vacation is kicking banana trees, I'm not sure you want me to. One well placed kick and you'll likely to start limping.

Are you a trained Muay Thai fighter whose idea of a relaxing vacation is kicking banana trees? Big difference between being one and wishing you were one.

My Sanda sifu actually does train by kicking, elbowing, kneeing and striking trees. And if he threw that kick at me I would either move in, move out, or block. It all depends on when I saw it.

Now throw that kick at him and he will likely break your leg, but that is how he is trained and it is not Aikido.

But Aikido is not the only oart talking about moving in. Old School Japanese Jiujutsu says move in, grab the leg and throw the kicker on the ground...or break the leg and then throw he guy on the ground.

The issue here is so you have a trained Muay Thai fighter whose idea of a relaxing vacation is kicking banana trees...ok what if you have a trained aikidoka whose lots and lots of Randori.

Now if you are interested in Aikido then quit asking questions, go train it and find out for yourself... and you would be suprised at how fast a good aikidoka can move...it is an amazing thing to watch

 

[ballen0351]

Banana trees huh someones watched one too many van dame movies.

 

[Instructor]

I had 666 posts so I had to say something!

Dude really prattling on a forum about this vs. that is just lame. Go... Learn.... and come back to us when you have.

 

[Tez3]

Banana trees huh someones watched one too many van dame movies.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If I'm a trained MT fighter whose idea of a relaxing vacation is kicking banana trees, I'm not sure you want me to. One well placed kick and you'll likely to start limping.

Right. Because all those kicks you see in the UFC thrown to the hip, thigh or lower leg that are shrugged off are being thrown by people who don't know how to kick.

You need to turn off the TV and do some actual training.

And banana trees? Please. You want me to think you're tough, there's a several-hundred-year old elm in my daughters yard. Come kick that down.

I may be an old man whose idea of a relaxing vacation is lying on a beach (after some a nice SCUBA dive, of course!) with a tasty frozen drink (perhaps under a banana tree), but a kick to the hip ain't going to cripple me. :rofl:

 

[Drasken]

Ok I'll take the bait one more time. I don't care if someone trains by kicking steel poles. Move... In....

A circular attack focuses all the power at the end of the limb. Much like swinging a bat. The damage caused by getting hit higher up on the weapon, in this case a leg, is not even half of what would be caused by getting hit at the end of that weapon. I'd rather miss my technique and get hit by the upper thigh than get hit by that shin trained by kicking hard objects.

Aikido trains to enter in, blend and neutralize like any other circular attack. Questioning the ability of them to do so seems sort of disrespectful. After all, even with Krav Maga I was trained to enter in to an attack like that and take what little remaining balance the opponent has left. Honestly when I trained Aikido my Sensei told me that in a situation like that, just step in and take their balance much like I was taught in Krav Maga.

As for seeing Aikido raw and ins unscripted... Not gonna happen. The philosophy of the style is that it is used for peace. No Aikidoka is going to go out and join the UFC. Aikido wouldn't even be very useful in UFC because small joint manipulation is illegal in the cage.
If you want to see it unscripted, go to an accredited dojo and take a few classes. My Sensei had us sparring after our first class. No script. Just 2 or more people coming at you and the rest of the class watching and giving pointers on how to apply the techniques you've learned.

Demonstrations in any style can be and usually are choreographed to get the most spectacular show possible. It doesn't mean they can't use this stuff if they're forced to defend themselves. And it's effective. Heck one of our high ranking students didn't take a fall right after being thrown by my sensei and broke her collarbone on a mat. It made both of them feel horrible, but that's why you don't see Aikidoka throwing random people like that all the time, you can seriously hurt someone very easily. All it takes is a mistake on either end and it's hospital time for the poor guy on the ground.

So, moral of the story is. Stop asking questions like this and go take a class or two. I guarantee you'll learn more in two or three classes than asking questions like this on the forum.