Rank testing fees credentials

Master Dan

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Costs of Dan Ranks are public record with Kukkiwon and start at just $150 for 1st Dan. What your instructor chooses to charge above that to compestate them for the overall instruction to that point varies.

Our NW TKD association fees have been

10 grade or Keub levels over a 20 months $575.00
1st Dan test $295 (note if you fail you can retest no charge)
2nd Dan test $350 time in rank before test min 18 months
3rd Dan test $450 time in rank before test min 24 months
4th Dan test $500 time in rank before test min 36 months
5th Dan test $600 time in rank before test min 48 months
(note time in rank starts from date on Kukkiwon Certificate not of original test date)
Higher rank Dan test recomendations are only considered once a year at Kukkiwon and if your application gets there late you will wait an entire year to recieve your certificate which can add a year of waiting time in rank before you can test again. This is why Do Jangs have different schedules for testing to allow for the schedule of Kukkwion.

RIP OFF PRICING AND CREDENTIALS:

If all you want is health and self defense fine no credentials is ok? but that decision of youth may come back to haunt you later in life. If you want to teach and take part in higher education related to MA then it is important to gain all the certification you can along the way. One man issuing a Dan Rank is just one man a big fish in a small pond but outside that pond is an ocean.

If the instructor is up front and tells you for what ever reason here is the price and I only give my certification fine but I have seen many people train 10 to 25 years believing they are getting real credentials and now have to start at zero in time in rank? or cannot be approved for training due to no official approval of thier rank and experience.

Classes will cost $50 to $250 a month depending on the program a resonalble cost to !st Dan would be about $2,900.00 including all the testing fees based on testing every 2 months and training 3-6 days a week over a 20 month period. It would cost about another $3,100.00 for 2nd Dan allowing for 18 months time in rank before testing.

Some people greatly increse this cost due to taking 4 to 6 years or longer to achieve 1st Dan.
 

dancingalone

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If all you want is health and self defense fine no credentials is ok? but that decision of youth may come back to haunt you later in life. If you want to teach and take part in higher education related to MA then it is important to gain all the certification you can along the way. One man issuing a Dan Rank is just one man a big fish in a small pond but outside that pond is an ocean.

Do we really need to re-argue the whole certification thing again? There is NO requirement in the United States for any 'certification' to teach martial arts. Nor should it be thought that a lack of KKW credentials mean that the teacher and his students are poor in quality or deficient in any fashion.

Certification is a recent phenomenon. It's even younger than the modern invention of belt and dan rankings. I'm perplexed that it seems to be taken such root that people have the mindset where they start using terms like 'real credentials' and 'official approval'.
 

Flying Crane

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Seems to me that there's been a whole lot of thought been put into the financial aspects of this, and how to justify same...
 

d1jinx

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Costs of Dan Ranks are public record with Kukkiwon and start at just $150 for 1st Dan.

last time i checked, KKW 1st dan was $70... not $150.

Instructors/masters should charge what they want over that. depending on their character/costs that may increase just a little or drastically.
 

bluewaveschool

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question - I've been 2nd Dan for a decade. But at best, any org will test me in at 2nd dan. How long do you think I'd have to wait to test for 3rd? Would any of the past ten years count at all? Would the fact that I'm running a school (especially a free school) have any weight to that decision?
 

Earl Weiss

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question - I've been 2nd Dan for a decade. But at best, any org will test me in at 2nd dan. How long do you think I'd have to wait to test for 3rd? Would any of the past ten years count at all? Would the fact that I'm running a school (especially a free school) have any weight to that decision?

All of this is org. dependent. Some will simply ask for your money and give you a cert. others may need to make sure you meet the available criteria.

I fall into the later category. Recently wasvisited by a nice gentleman. Trained for 25+ years. Been thru various schools and orgs due to work relocation. About 45 years old and a 3rd dan. Wanted certification and to test for 4th. A way to cert his own students. I was also familiar with his main instructor's instructor. Said he was most familiar with the ITF patterns so he was referred to me. Had him come to train. He only knew thru 1st Dan patterns and you could tell from his technique there was a strong Chung Do Kwan lineage and his instructors either did not teach him a lot of stuff or he was taught wrong.

I basicaly explained that he had a long and hard road ahead to become an ITF 4th dan. Never saw him again.

This is at least the third time such a story has taken place in my gym.
 

Earl Weiss

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Costs of Dan Ranks are public record with Kukkiwon and start at just $150 for 1st Dan. What your instructor chooses to charge above that to compestate them for the overall instruction to that point varies.

Our NW TKD association fees have been

10 grade or Keub levels over a 20 months $575.00
1st Dan test $295 (note if you fail you can retest no charge)
2nd Dan test $350 time in rank before test min 18 months
3rd Dan test $450 time in rank before test min 24 months
4th Dan test $500 time in rank before test min 36 months
5th Dan test $600 time in rank before test min 48 months
.

This seems to fall into a common and what might be considered "reasoneable' price structure. Organizations and schools need $ to survive. This must cover costs which many who only get an hourly check are clueless about.

The question i have is why, as is so common. does a piece of paer with a 5 on it cost double or more than a piece of paper with a 1 on it?
 

bluewaveschool

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Can you elaborate on what you mean by his techniques showing a strong Chun Do Kwan lineage? And on the what they possibly did not teach him/teach him wrong?
 

Gemini

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The question i have is why, as is so common. does a piece of paer with a 5 on it cost double or more than a piece of paper with a 1 on it?
At one time I asked the same question and the response was that at 4 Dan it's assumed you'll be teaching and earning income from your rank since many consider 4 Dan master level. I don't know if that's really true, but from a practicle standpoint it has logic.
 

Cirdan

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I think it almost hillarious to come up with a "cost" for reaching 1.dan. The time and sweat you put into it should make money pretty meaningless unless you are at a BB mill.

Grading 10 times over 20 months for a BB is a .. guess what?
 

Earl Weiss

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Can you elaborate on what you mean by his techniques showing a strong Chun Do Kwan lineage? And on the what they possibly did not teach him/teach him wrong?

Easier to show than describe but I'll try some examples.
You can see the Chung Do Kwan lineage in things like the Twin Outer forearm Block rising on a diagonal from the rear hip instead of looking like a rising outer forearm block and high outer forearm block performed at the same time. Palm upward blocks moving from rear to front instead of side to side. Some moves done with tension which does not exist in the Chang Hon system.

Some pattern moves were completely different and some things like turning versus side turning kick were missing , side pressing versus side piercing characteristics missing. Speed designations like slow, fast, continuous and connecting distinctions missing.


There was a whole lot more, bu it has been some time now since he visited.
 
OP
Master Dan

Master Dan

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question - I've been 2nd Dan for a decade. But at best, any org will test me in at 2nd dan. How long do you think I'd have to wait to test for 3rd? Would any of the past ten years count at all? Would the fact that I'm running a school (especially a free school) have any weight to that decision?

If you care to reply private message I can help you with your 3rd Dan test. First I assume your current rank is Kukkiwon? It does not matter that it has been ten years. What matters is that you have 24 months time in rank from the date issued by Kukkiwon to have the right to test.

Second: You need to be able to test at 3rd Dan level, Sparing level based appropiate for your age, more important good self defense skills well rounded, good quality breaking two boards all techniques and self hold, good PoomSe to Tae Beak including all 8 Tae Gueks especially if you are teaching. Some history knowledge and terminology.

Since you teach for free I will help you for free and I will help you find grant funds to help your students , recieve a salary and increase your membership if you like.

I would also recomend that I can sponsor you to attend an International Master's teaching license test even though you are not at Master level you still get the majority of the education and a 2-3rd dan level instructor certification issued by Kukkiwon which is very nice to have especially in working with many organizations and looking for funding to teach.

Good luck hope to hear from you.
 
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Master Dan

Master Dan

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This seems to fall into a common and what might be considered "reasoneable' price structure. Organizations and schools need $ to survive. This must cover costs which many who only get an hourly check are clueless about.

The question i have is why, as is so common. does a piece of paer with a 5 on it cost double or more than a piece of paper with a 1 on it?

As long as I can remember it has always been that way from a marketing stand point make it less costly for first Dan and hope they develope a real need for it later like the drug companies? IF you got a have it the price goes up??

However the price going up should relate to the increased sense of worth. Koreans have it drilled into thier heads that the more Americans pay for something the more value they will place on it and the less likely they will quit training??
 
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Master Dan

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Do we really need to re-argue the whole certification thing again? There is NO requirement in the United States for any 'certification' to teach martial arts. Nor should it be thought that a lack of KKW credentials mean that the teacher and his students are poor in quality or deficient in any fashion.

Certification is a recent phenomenon. It's even younger than the modern invention of belt and dan rankings. I'm perplexed that it seems to be taken such root that people have the mindset where they start using terms like 'real credentials' and 'official approval'.


Like it or not state and national licensing regulatiing martial art instruction is comming including back ground checks. While a rank piece of paper or the lack there of may or may not mean much about a person's ability to teach , rigorous education and license testing and certification including back ground checks does. Thanks to the success of MMA fighting government smells money in regulation recently an Olympic boxing tournament was shut down and told they needed lisence and insurance that met the state and county requirments. This is why Kukkiwon is thinking ahead and trying over time to get 5,000 master's in the US Tested and certified to be the model for when that bridge shows up to cross. In Korean nobody opens a doJang with out it.

As far as lack of credentials related to KKW its only meant to matter to those that are part of that organization and wish to take part in or advantage of thier educational support. Self defense the street is different good is good and bad is bad. But alot of people spend alot of time bouncing around here and there because they don't want to have a master over them or be told what to do including instructors?
Every man needs a master, every master needs a Grand Master and Grand Masters need Senior GM and further education to continue the line of mutual support. No one person teaching taught by someone taught by someone has a $ 1million cash to spend just on research to change a single stance like the KKW just did.

I have always tried to round out my abilities with serious training in other styles but always maintaining main public teaching and instruction in one direction. My GM long ago said other GM's will judge you by how long you stay with one instructor 25 30 years is considerd good attitude.

If someone makes the comment related to approval or real credentials it has nothing to do with worthiness in a general sense its related to individuals who currently or in the past have exagerated thier qualifications with KKW or out right lied even faking documents either to bilk unsaspecting students into joining or paying more or just ego.

You don't find people going through such efforts claiming things from an individual the individual instructor can print anything they like for that matter anyone can go online and have very good certificates made by great artisans and never trained a day it still won't help when it matters on the street or getting in the doors you want.
 

chrispillertkd

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Like it or not state and national licensing regulatiing martial art instruction is comming including back ground checks. While a rank piece of paper or the lack there of may or may not mean much about a person's ability to teach , rigorous education and license testing and certification including back ground checks does. Thanks to the success of MMA fighting government smells money in regulation recently an Olympic boxing tournament was shut down and told they needed lisence and insurance that met the state and county requirments. This is why Kukkiwon is thinking ahead and trying over time to get 5,000 master's in the US Tested and certified to be the model for when that bridge shows up to cross. In Korean nobody opens a doJang with out it.

Do you have any sort of evidence that governmental regulation of Taekwon-Do (and other MA) instruction "is coming" besides your assertion that MMA events has made the government "smell money"? (Your statement about a boxing match being shut down is interesting but doesn't actually argue for the immenence of regulation of a different field.) I mean actual evidence such as proposed legislation on the state or federal level as opposed to statements by people who just happen to run a certification program that costs hundreds of dollars...

Pax,

Chris
 

Marginal

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However the price going up should relate to the increased sense of worth. Koreans have it drilled into thier heads that the more Americans pay for something the more value they will place on it and the less likely they will quit training??

Koreans don't universally dictate certification fees.
 

dancingalone

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Like it or not state and national licensing regulatiing martial art instruction is comming including back ground checks. While a rank piece of paper or the lack there of may or may not mean much about a person's ability to teach , rigorous education and license testing and certification including back ground checks does. Thanks to the success of MMA fighting government smells money in regulation recently an Olympic boxing tournament was shut down and told they needed lisence and insurance that met the state and county requirments. This is why Kukkiwon is thinking ahead and trying over time to get 5,000 master's in the US Tested and certified to be the model for when that bridge shows up to cross. In Korean nobody opens a doJang with out it.

I'm not convinced governmental regulation of martial arts instruction is anywhere close to being a reality. At least in the United States, this would be under the auspices of the states and I know there is no widespread support for it at all in my area. It's not even on the radar. I would also question how feasible it is to regulate martial arts entirely: not every school teaches the same things even if it is nominally the same system, so how on earth could the same credentialing be established for a TKD teacher compared to perhaps a gong fu teacher?

On the other hand, I could very well see why some people, perhaps as part of large MA organizations, might want to see governmental oversight and regulation enacted. Such bureaucracy invariably is a competitive advantage to large groups; I have no doubts the KKW is supportive of exporting their Korean model of governmental involvement to other markets.

As far as lack of credentials related to KKW its only meant to matter to those that are part of that organization and wish to take part in or advantage of thier educational support. Self defense the street is different good is good and bad is bad. But alot of people spend alot of time bouncing around here and there because they don't want to have a master over them or be told what to do including instructors?
Every man needs a master, every master needs a Grand Master and Grand Masters need Senior GM and further education to continue the line of mutual support. No one person teaching taught by someone taught by someone has a $ 1million cash to spend just on research to change a single stance like the KKW just did.

No, not everyone needs a "master". Students need good teachers. The rest of the hierarchical trappings you espouse are unimportant and unnecessary to the instruction of martial arts itself.

I have always tried to round out my abilities with serious training in other styles but always maintaining main public teaching and instruction in one direction. My GM long ago said other GM's will judge you by how long you stay with one instructor 25 30 years is considerd good attitude.
Considered good attitude by whom? And why? Longevity with a particular teacher in of itself is a neutral thing. I have a long time teacher who I stay with because he's an excellent teacher, unstinting with his knowledge, and he's someone who I want to learn from and emulate. It would make no sense in contrast to continue to stay with a poor teacher out of a mere sense of loyalty or a desire to display 'good attitude'.


If someone makes the comment related to approval or real credentials it has nothing to do with worthiness in a general sense its related to individuals who currently or in the past have exagerated thier qualifications with KKW or out right lied even faking documents either to bilk unsaspecting students into joining or paying more or just ego.

You don't find people going through such efforts claiming things from an individual the individual instructor can print anything they like for that matter anyone can go online and have very good certificates made by great artisans and never trained a day it still won't help when it matters on the street or getting in the doors you want.

I have no beef with this. Obviously, everyone should be honest. Don't lie and tell your students they will be KKW-certified if you have no intentions of submitting their ranks to the KKW.

On the other hand, the vast majority of students that first enroll in one's school have no idea what the KKW (or any other org) is. They just want to train. I've said multiple times here that the cognoscenti on forums like MT pay too much attention to things like certification or lineage because ultimately they mean little to the daily experience of training and getting better for 99% of the students. And I say this as someone with pretty darn good lineage and teachers in the arts I choose to train. So what? The only reason my students even know it is because I tell them. It changes nothing for them in their daily training.
 

Archtkd

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Our NW TKD association fees have been

10 grade or Keub levels over a 20 months $575.00
1st Dan test $295 (note if you fail you can retest no charge)
2nd Dan test $350 time in rank before test min 18 months
3rd Dan test $450 time in rank before test min 24 months
4th Dan test $500 time in rank before test min 36 months
5th Dan test $600 time in rank before test min 48 months
(note time in rank starts from date on Kukkiwon Certificate not of original test date) .

How many more times shall we thrash this rotten horse? So, because of this type of price structure, NW TKD Association certificates and their holders are proper, and bonafide? Why charge so little and require such long periods between testing? How about $10,000 for 1st Dan in 9 months? Some people in New York, as we have learned recently in MT threads - are willing and ready to dole out more than that.

The point here is there's no requirement for certification to teach martial arts in private studios in United States and it's very doubtful that all 50 states will ever agree on a standard of certification that would cover all amateur martial arts and their sub sets. An agreement on criminal background checks and liability, could be made, but even that would have issues. How, for example, could we ever agree on the certification standard of a 13th Scar grandmaster in Shankdokwan, the martial art founded by inmate No. 2394577?

MMA is regulated because it's a professional sport, that encroached on boxing, another long regulated professional sport. That regulation -- and many people don't seem to understand this -- happens at the money making end of the business: the public exhibition arena and the television broadcast. I seriously doubt that any local, state or federal government agency really regulates the gyms where MMA training is actually done.

Most of us here in MT, are in the self regulated amateur martial arts end of things, where there is no paying public audience for what we do. We are in the deep consumer "do your own due diligence and beware of what you buy," industry. We’ve come to learn that piles of certification on a dojang’s wall and the 20 gold stripes on a masters’ frayed black belt can mean absolutely nothing. It's sad, but that's the way things are and are most likely to remain.
 
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